Feeling embarrassed being British right now

gbrandwood · 08-09-2011, 05:44 PM

I guess news of all of the rioting taking place across the UK has spread around the world.

I'm both disgusted and embarrassed at the same time for all of the anarchy in some of our biggest cities at the moment. Liverpool, Manchester, Birmingham, London... so terrible. And with the 2012 Olympics just around the corner.

KSagal · 08-09-2011, 08:02 PM

I don't really understand their point. Why are they rioting, and what do they hope to create or change?

Bob.Kerns · 08-09-2011, 10:54 PM

We've had our own embarrassing moments lately here, but I'm glad to say, no riots. You have my sympathy.

Can anyone point to an instance in human history, where riots have made anything better? Revolutions, maybe, but riots?

(And we're awfully proud of our revolution, but one only needs to look north to think maybe it didn't have to be that way.)

gbrandwood · 08-10-2011, 07:34 AM

The riots started following the shooting of an armed person by the police. The person died and the initial riots were supposedly related to the shooting. Few details have been released. However, whilst some unrest at this shooting might be understandable to those few people concerned, it has since been widely broadcast by the media and it has spread across the country.

And the reasons given by the hooligans are sounding less and less "sincere", and it seems plainly obvious to me that they are rioting just because they feel they may be able get away with it. Hundreds of arrests have been made. Cars and buses burnt out. Ambulance, fire engines and police forces attacked.

It is awful to watch hooded thugs just smashing the place up, mugging people and literally stealing plasma TVs, phones, clothes etc., and riding off on their bikes or running into the night.

I am shocked and dismayed by it all. I guess this is how one feels when it happens in your "own backyard". These things go on all the time elsewhere in the world.

Rolacoy · 08-10-2011, 09:33 AM

Who are the people that are rioting? Are they the native british people or immigrants?

KSagal · 08-10-2011, 10:10 AM

The United States has surely seen its moments of shame in this same manner. I recall the riots after certain legal decisions, like the OJ trial and the Rodney King trial.

What I have never understood, is why the rioters burn the neighborhoods. In the ones I listed, they overwhelmingly burned the inner city neighborhoods they lived in. I just don't get it.

I would not endorse it, but if poor people who feel they have gotten a bad deal from life went to a rich neighborhood, and burned that, I may at least understand what they are doing. But when they burn their own neighborhoods, it defies logic.

Perhaps that is it. This has nothing to do with logic, it is pure emotional outburst, with the perception that they will not be held accountable.

Then, eventually, it all comes down to haves and have nots. It comes down to stuff. The crowd's emotion over the original issue ebbs, and people try to profit take. I suspect at this point, the rioters are not the same as the original, but those who are climbing on the band wagon.

I do not happen to agree with Bob, and think that life in Canada or anywhere else would be the same as it is now without the American Revolution. I believe that the United States has been a singular force for good and for improvements to civilization and life on earth, and that its influence has rippled down to many other places on the planet. We are surely not the only honorable or laudable force, but our influence cannot be easily dismissed either.

All that said, a riot or revolution for the sake of getting other people to leave us alone, or to get their nose out of our business is far different than a riot or action for the sake of taking other people's stuff as your own, or to damage the property of others, for the sake of hurting them.

One of my biggest challenges as a parent, especially in these times, is to have my children understand that wrong is wrong because it is wrong, not because you will get caught, or get in trouble. It is not about avoiding punishment, it is about doing the right thing.

So much of society, press, television and much more today feeds children and anyone else who will listen that wrong is determined if you get caught or not. So much bad behavior is demonstrated or even revered in the media, without consequence.

All the initial reports about the riots that I saw reported that the police had shot and killed a man who was a father of four. No more. It was much later that you could hear that he was armed, a suspected gangster, and someone who had be surveiled by the police for some time. This does not seem the random shooting, nor a casual abuse of police power, as were the seemingly early reports.

I do hope for cooler heads to prevail. Keep safe. This too will pass. I hope that all those who are taking advantage get what is appropriate punishment, and maybe a tad more. It is time to turn the tide back toward civility being the standard, not less.

08-09-2011, 05:44 PM	#1
gbrandwood Advanced Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: North west England, UK. Posts: 3,043	Feeling embarrassed being British right now I guess news of all of the rioting taking place across the UK has spread around the world. I'm both disgusted and embarrassed at the same time for all of the anarchy in some of our biggest cities at the moment. Liverpool, Manchester, Birmingham, London... so terrible. And with the 2012 Olympics just around the corner. __________________ Gareth Brandwood The comments posted are made by the fat figners of the individual and do not necessarily represent the views of the brain.

08-09-2011, 08:02 PM	#2
KSagal Glides a lot, talks more... Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Pelham, NH, USA. Posts: 10,356	I don't really understand their point. Why are they rioting, and what do they hope to create or change? __________________ Karl Ian Sagal To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. "Well done is better than well said." (Ben Franklin) Bene factum melior bene dictum Proud past President of SEG America and member of the First Premier Segway Enthusiasts Group and subsequent ones as well.

08-09-2011, 10:54 PM	#3
Bob.Kerns Advanced Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Marin County, CA Posts: 3,783	We've had our own embarrassing moments lately here, but I'm glad to say, no riots. You have my sympathy. Can anyone point to an instance in human history, where riots have made anything better? Revolutions, maybe, but riots? (And we're awfully proud of our revolution, but one only needs to look north to think maybe it didn't have to be that way.) __________________ Bob Kerns: To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. , To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Obviously, we can't have infinite voltage, or the universe would tear itself to shreds, and we wouldn't be discussing Segways.

08-10-2011, 07:34 AM	#4
gbrandwood Advanced Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: North west England, UK. Posts: 3,043	The riots started following the shooting of an armed person by the police. The person died and the initial riots were supposedly related to the shooting. Few details have been released. However, whilst some unrest at this shooting might be understandable to those few people concerned, it has since been widely broadcast by the media and it has spread across the country. And the reasons given by the hooligans are sounding less and less "sincere", and it seems plainly obvious to me that they are rioting just because they feel they may be able get away with it. Hundreds of arrests have been made. Cars and buses burnt out. Ambulance, fire engines and police forces attacked. It is awful to watch hooded thugs just smashing the place up, mugging people and literally stealing plasma TVs, phones, clothes etc., and riding off on their bikes or running into the night. I am shocked and dismayed by it all. I guess this is how one feels when it happens in your "own backyard". These things go on all the time elsewhere in the world. __________________ Gareth Brandwood The comments posted are made by the fat figners of the individual and do not necessarily represent the views of the brain.

08-10-2011, 10:10 AM	#6
KSagal Glides a lot, talks more... Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Pelham, NH, USA. Posts: 10,356	The United States has surely seen its moments of shame in this same manner. I recall the riots after certain legal decisions, like the OJ trial and the Rodney King trial. What I have never understood, is why the rioters burn the neighborhoods. In the ones I listed, they overwhelmingly burned the inner city neighborhoods they lived in. I just don't get it. I would not endorse it, but if poor people who feel they have gotten a bad deal from life went to a rich neighborhood, and burned that, I may at least understand what they are doing. But when they burn their own neighborhoods, it defies logic. Perhaps that is it. This has nothing to do with logic, it is pure emotional outburst, with the perception that they will not be held accountable. Then, eventually, it all comes down to haves and have nots. It comes down to stuff. The crowd's emotion over the original issue ebbs, and people try to profit take. I suspect at this point, the rioters are not the same as the original, but those who are climbing on the band wagon. I do not happen to agree with Bob, and think that life in Canada or anywhere else would be the same as it is now without the American Revolution. I believe that the United States has been a singular force for good and for improvements to civilization and life on earth, and that its influence has rippled down to many other places on the planet. We are surely not the only honorable or laudable force, but our influence cannot be easily dismissed either. All that said, a riot or revolution for the sake of getting other people to leave us alone, or to get their nose out of our business is far different than a riot or action for the sake of taking other people's stuff as your own, or to damage the property of others, for the sake of hurting them. One of my biggest challenges as a parent, especially in these times, is to have my children understand that wrong is wrong because it is wrong, not because you will get caught, or get in trouble. It is not about avoiding punishment, it is about doing the right thing. So much of society, press, television and much more today feeds children and anyone else who will listen that wrong is determined if you get caught or not. So much bad behavior is demonstrated or even revered in the media, without consequence. All the initial reports about the riots that I saw reported that the police had shot and killed a man who was a father of four. No more. It was much later that you could hear that he was armed, a suspected gangster, and someone who had be surveiled by the police for some time. This does not seem the random shooting, nor a casual abuse of police power, as were the seemingly early reports. I do hope for cooler heads to prevail. Keep safe. This too will pass. I hope that all those who are taking advantage get what is appropriate punishment, and maybe a tad more. It is time to turn the tide back toward civility being the standard, not less. __________________ Karl Ian Sagal To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. "Well done is better than well said." (Ben Franklin) Bene factum melior bene dictum Proud past President of SEG America and member of the First Premier Segway Enthusiasts Group and subsequent ones as well.

08-10-2011, 09:33 AM	#5
Rolacoy Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: East Texas Posts: 602	Who are the people that are rioting? Are they the native british people or immigrants?

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