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Old 12-11-2005, 02:57 PM   #31
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Just some anecdotal evidence of a "relationship" between DEKA and NASA. On the first page of this old (2000) WIRED article, you'll see who one of Dean's houseguests was ... [now former] NASA Administrator Dan Goldin. NASA's former top man, and longest-serving administrator. Good article if you've not seen it.

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.09/kamen.html



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Old 12-13-2005, 05:00 AM   #32
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Brooster

"relationship" between DEKA and NASA
thank you for the link
about Segway/NASA... apparently the only cooperation is the the NASA's "humanoid" with Segway wheels... no other projects known

but I found interesting the "Segway Mobility Platform" www.segway.com/segway/rmp/

unfortunately it is only for earth use

I hope that Segway will design a moon version that space researchers can buy and use at a reasonable price


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Old 12-13-2005, 05:21 AM   #33
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You're welcome. I just hope that Segway does whatever it needs to do to stay in business here on Earth.

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Old 12-13-2005, 06:15 AM   #34
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I'm all for advancement of technology, and maybe (hopefully) I'm missing something in this whole concept, but it strikes me that what you're talking about here is a potential global investment of many billions of dollars, including an R&D investment on Segway's part of, at the very least, many millions of dollars on little more than the pure speculation that other firms will;
1.- be interested enough to commit many millions of their own dollars in
sponsorship funds, or
2.- dedicate huge resources to develop a program to launch a lunar mission
3.- follow through with said lunar mission, deal with the huge logistics issues,
the politics (equally huge), the press, both positive and negative and actually
go ahead and send a mission up...to test what, exactly? That it can be done?

it would be little more than repeating something that has already been done, decades ago, and the folks that did it have not seen sufficient reasons since to repeat the exercise. I'm certianly not a rocket scientist and wouldn't want to speculate as to the reasons they haven't, but they are (rocket scientists, that is) and I'm pretty sure it has a lot to do with both money and bang for their buck.

What you're talking about is a staggering investment of time, energy, money and brainpower effectively re-inventing the wheel, and one that already made a good many revolutions at that. In a perfect world, what a cool idea. Unfortunately, our world is far from perfect, and I don't think I'll be donating much of my own money to the project, for much the same reasons that NASA hasn't. Maybe we'd be better served if we spent even a wee small bit of that money, energy, time and thought on first making some realistic gains in the way we treat the place we live (good old Mother Earth), than engaging in a competition to see whole can put together the biggest glide in space. Once we've dealt with some of the more immediate issues we have here on our home planet, what the heck, let's go after making a whole ton of XT tracks on the Moon, or Mars for that matter.

I think I'd kind of prefer to see Segway spend that money improving the terrestial versions that we're all so passionate about, improving the acceptance and use of Segways and other energy efficient, environmentally friendly tools. Maybe, if they did something like that first, there may come a day where the first Lunar Segfest becomes a reality.

just my 2 cents Canadian (1.6 cents American...the Canuck buck's getting stronger!)
Wayne

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Old 12-13-2005, 08:20 AM   #35
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Brooster

You're welcome. I just hope that Segway does whatever it needs to do to stay in business here on Earth.

Brooster
I agree, but Segway can share the research cost on 100+ units selling final devices at $300,000 each, so it may be very profitable

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Old 12-13-2005, 08:56 AM   #36
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Dragan

I'm all for advancement of technology, and maybe (hopefully) I'm missing something in this whole concept, but it strikes me that what you're talking about here is a potential global investment of many billions of dollars, including an R&D investment on Segway's part of, at the very least, many millions of dollars on little more than the pure speculation that other firms will
spend money for space or for earth is an old dispute that will exist forever

I think that spend money for space is NOT a waste, you can agree that space has many usefull applications (weather sat, comm, etc.) but we can't have only good things, final applications is also a result of many mistakes

about moonrovers... they don't need BILLIONS... NASA has a plan to send a few rovers in 2010-2015 to search land sites for new manned missions... well... the total NASA budget for that plan will be around $400 million!

consider that NASA has high prices, high specs, heavy vehicles, army of scientists and engineers to pay, infrastructures, expensive rockets, etc.

a private (single and very litte) moonrover may need a few millions to develop, a few (companies or universities) engineers and a $20 million "commercial" rocket to launch (many countries and space companies sell them including launch support)

about the "unperfect world"... I think that a private moon race may happen JUST because we are in an unperfect world where 90% of money is
not spend for research but for useless things and for "image", prestige, games, advertising, etc. (the money to launch a rover on the moon may be LESS than ONE superbowl TV commercial...)

with my prize I want to demonstrate that launch a rover on the moon may be easy also for privates and at low cost, but the effort will be NOT only for advertising and prestige, in fact, one of the rules will be that winners must share and give FREE rovers' knowlendge, moon images and moon exploration time to the world's scientific community

the final purpose of the prize is NOT only "advertising" and "prestige" but... MORE space, MORE science, MORE exploration, MORE konwlendge

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Old 12-13-2005, 02:08 PM   #37
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I agree on some level with both Dragan and SpaceBatMan.

I have always been mystified with the fanatic support for some things on earth (Sports figures earning millions of dollars) and not enough support for other things (Teachers and firemen and policemen not getting nearly a comparable wage).

Regardless of my confusion, it still is the reality. I believe that space exploration has several values. There is value in learning anything new. There is value in learning how to do things differently (In vaccuum, less gravity, etc) and then applying that back home. There is value in getting technologists all fired up creating new technologies, many of the near misses being very useful as well.

To only work for today's problems is short sighted. It is like spending all your effort to build a fire and gather wood to feed it, and not building a good shelter. You have to prepare for the future as well as fix the present, and new technologies and creative attitudes do help the future.

You also must not loose sight of the current issues. It also makes no sense to spend all your efforts building a shelter for next year, and ignore the fire today, if you get so cold that you get sick and die...

I often use an old saying that I think applies here. Anyone who truely wants to beat a forest fire needs to have as many people cutting down trees as those he has tossing buckets of water.

That balance is a difficult one to maintain, but well worth the effort...

Karl Ian Sagal

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Old 12-13-2005, 03:23 PM   #38
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by KSagal

...I agree on some level with both Dragan and SpaceBatMan...
unfortunately, many peoples (expecially non-tech peoples) in the world have difficulties to see the "connection" between space exploration and any day life... but, without the incredible speed up of space investments in electronics and computers (expecially the Apollo projects) we may have to-day only some heavy "three-chip", vacuum tube 8-digit display desktop, four operatins, calsulators... no Pentiums, no Notebooks, no LCD display, no MP3, no SatTV, no Pacemakers, no internet, no DVD... an no Segway...


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Old 12-13-2005, 03:32 PM   #39
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Now, making a working segway, with interactive balance technology, using mechanical relays, weights, pulleys, cables and pendulums... That would be an invention...

Karl Ian Sagal

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Old 12-13-2005, 08:00 PM   #40
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Don't misunderstand what I was getting at spacebatman...first of all, I am decidedly a Techie...most Segway dealers actually do fall into that category. Nor am I a fool; I fully understand and appreciate the benefits we have gained from space exploration, and will continue to gain from it. That said, the computer, LCD's, pacemakers, MP3, etc. of the world don't owe their entire existance to the space program, nor does the Segway, I assure you.

My point was more based in the legitimacy of the proposal, and what significant steps forward would be potentially gained by entering into obstensibly a contest to put a quantity of rovers on the moon. Would there be some technical benefits, perhaps breakthroughs? Maybe...I don't know, and I stated that. I deferred to the experts, who do know far better than you or I and they are not intent of pursueing the idea with the vigor they once did. Some of that is certainly political will or lack thereof. Some of it truly comes down to bang for the buck.

Karl's absolutely right, there is a point of balance, and it's difficult to maintain it. What I was suggesting is that tipping the balance point even by the paltry sum of 400 million is still tipping the balance. Is it worth it? At this point in history, my sense it that it probably isn't high enough on the list of global priorities to invest that kind of resource. But that's just my opinion, and opinions are like belly-buttons; everyone has one.

The bottom line always comes down to a finite resource; money. The trick we all face is how best to utilize that money to better our lives, our environment and our future. Continuing with the exploration of space is something that I believe in just as strongly as you do, believe it or not. I think where we don't share the same opinion is where to spend some of that finite resource, and how.
Wayne

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