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Old 04-01-2019, 08:13 AM   #1
Ramsey252
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Default ECORIDER E8-2 Views?

I know this will be controversial but due to such poor servicing and lack of ability or will to utilise my working parts I am thinking of buying Ecorider E8-2s for my tour business.
My reason is I now have a box of very expensive bits that would make at least one good segway if not two. I have spare working CU boards, BSAs and bases but the UK Segway repairers have stated that will not reuse my old parts even for a price to test and fit. I have a segway with a faulty CU board and I asked them if I send the powerbase and spare board could they test and fit/recode for a cost. They said no I have to buy a new CU board so thats a 600 board (and 3 others and 2 900 BSAs) i have to throw away. For this reason I am looking at moving away from Segway as they are not financially viable for a business tour operator.

I am going to demo an Ecorider E8-2 and wondered if anyone had experience of them on here. The Tech sheet looks very impressive especially the waterproof and range parts? Any views would be really helpful
Thanks
Rams
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Old 04-02-2019, 02:17 PM   #2
Philip
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I am finding it difficult to accept the accuracy of the information on the spec sheet for the E8-2 that I found online.

https://www.ecoriderscooter.com/off-...c-scooter.html

For example, they claim it can climb a 45 degree slope....how is this possible?

IPX6 waterproofing is a difficult spec to achieve. Another thing that stands out is the battery packs are only spec'd to last "1-3 years" which is very short compared with Segway packs.

If you were to choose this device for a commercial tour business how can it meet Health & Safety regulations when it lacks full redundant sub-systems?

I happened to have the opportunity to ride one of these devices last month, and was not impressed at all. There is a serious lack of overhead in performance under load (i.e. lots of Speed Limiter push-back), and dynamic performance when turning at high speed is very disconcerting and unintuitive (I'm not certain why, but I suspect it does not have Segway's Roll Compensation feature mapped into the steering algorithm).
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Old 05-25-2019, 03:06 AM   #3
Ramsey252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip View Post
I am finding it difficult to accept the accuracy of the information on the spec sheet for the E8-2 that I found online.

https://www.ecoriderscooter.com/off-...c-scooter.html

For example, they claim it can climb a 45 degree slope....how is this possible?

IPX6 waterproofing is a difficult spec to achieve. Another thing that stands out is the battery packs are only spec'd to last "1-3 years" which is very short compared with Segway packs.

If you were to choose this device for a commercial tour business how can it meet Health & Safety regulations when it lacks full redundant sub-systems?

I happened to have the opportunity to ride one of these devices last month, and was not impressed at all. There is a serious lack of overhead in performance under load (i.e. lots of Speed Limiter push-back), and dynamic performance when turning at high speed is very disconcerting and unintuitive (I'm not certain why, but I suspect it does not have Segway's Roll Compensation feature mapped into the steering algorithm).
I have been testing the smaller model for some weeks and have to say I have it tuned very close to an X2, infact Im sure customer would not know the difference. Due to the massive price difference, cheaper spare and ability to swap and so far much better customer service they are looking like a real Segway contender/killer.
What are the redundant subsystems you mention when you talk about using these in a tour environment? I know as far as boards are concerned there is only one vs 2 and the separate BSA(gyro) but what difference do these make in a tour environment?
I have to say, the torque is better (though much newer gearboxes) the feel is great on the smaller models with lower tyre pressure and steering tuned via the app. I do agree about the E8-2, I found that unrideable! Steering was awful and overall ride I thought to be dangerous.
Thanks for your input, really keen to understand these resilient sub systems before jumping in.
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Old 05-26-2019, 04:59 AM   #4
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Regarding: "What are the redundant subsystems you mention when you talk about using these in a tour environment? I know as far as boards are concerned there is only one vs 2 and the separate BSA(gyro) but what difference do these make in a tour environment?"

Well, here in New Zealand our Health & Safety laws require a business to take all practicable steps to keep customers safe. I believe the requirements in UK are similar. A Segway PT meets this requirement because it has redundant sub-systems. I suggest other brands cannot.

Self-balancing devices are amazing - right up until the moment when they stop self-balancing without any warning. Every component fails, eventually (even with the best maintenance program). So it is only a matter of "when" (not "if") it happens. When a critical component fails the self-balancing device either falls over (both wheels lose power) dumping the rider, or turns on the spot and falls over while throwing the rider off (one wheel loses power, the other keeps going).

In a broad sense, the critical comments are the battery packs, the motor controllers, the steering sensors, the "gyros" (balance sensors), and the motors. The Segway PT has two of every critical component (including double-wound motors, so effectively two motors inside one housing). If one half fails, the device is still able to maintain self-balancing using the other half, enabling the rider to maintain full control over steering as the device automatically slows to a stop allowing safe dismounting.

Other brands of self-balancing device have only one of some/all critical components, so a failure results in loss of balancing/control....and a fall. You don't want your customers falling off because you've put them on a machine that is definitely going to fail at some unknowable point in time.

Two other reasons to use genuine Segway PTs come to mind. First, they are actually really reliable and last for years and years. Second, you can use the Segway brand to attract customers to your business (this is vital, really). In my observation over the years, for whatever the reasons, no business that uses non-Segway brand devices for a tour business lasts more than 1 or maybe 2 seasons.

What do others think?
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Old 05-26-2019, 07:56 AM   #5
Ramsey252
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Thanks for that and it makes sense. My problem is due to the poor service and repair practice my tour business is no longer viable.
In the UK it is almost impossible to get a Segway fixed in a reasonable time and at a reasonable price. Also Segway always make you pay for new parts. For example from old machines I have 4 CU boards and and BSA all in good working order. For what ever price of testing and programming (Im willing to pay)these components to work together i.e. I have a machine with a failed CU board so happy to send the power base and my spare CU boards to be tested and installed, Segway wont. Not that they cant they are just greedy and want to sell only new parts all the time. In the case of a BSA unit that pretty much renders a used Segway as not worth repairing. That means I have 4k of spare parts that are good for nothing.
Their customer service and spares costs is what will eventually drive them out of business as other manufacturers catch up and over take. (nearly there already).
I will review your very valid comments and speak to the Chinese developers who seem very keen to improve their offering.
I have a unit with UK trading standards and safety and so far they are happy though still testing.
Balance boards are legal to sell in the UK without such resilient subsystems though I appreciate they aren't used for tours etc.

There is no doubt Segway is a great product but Im finding their way of working impossible due to inflated prices and extremely poor customer service.

I really appreciate your very knowledgeable response though.

many thanks

Ramsey
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Old 09-12-2019, 11:19 PM   #6
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Talking Ecorider E8-2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramsey252 View Post
I have been testing the smaller model for some weeks and have to say I have it tuned very close to an X2, infact Im sure customer would not know the difference. Due to the massive price difference, cheaper spare and ability to swap and so far much better customer service they are looking like a real Segway contender/killer.
What are the redundant subsystems you mention when you talk about using these in a tour environment? I know as far as boards are concerned there is only one vs 2 and the separate BSA(gyro) but what difference do these make in a tour environment?
I have to say, the torque is better (though much newer gearboxes) the feel is great on the smaller models with lower tyre pressure and steering tuned via the app. I do agree about the E8-2, I found that unrideable! Steering was awful and overall ride I thought to be dangerous.
Thanks for your input, really keen to understand these resilient sub systems before jumping in.
Hi Ramsey, i note your comments in regards to the E8-2 being unrideable.. i recently purchased one to test these for possible group Aussie buy and i agree they ride really badly and steering is quite un-intuitive ( Phillip i think you are onto something with your comments that EcoRider dont have the Segway steering mapped into the algorithm on the E8-2) and it does not feel safe on road let alone on bumpy off road applications or ride like an X2 at all ( my shins can attest to that ) You indicate above that you have the smaller model - is that the 19 inch wheel model with the smaller powered motors that Ecorider advertise?? Does that model have a specific model number so i can be sure Im actually looking at the right one you mention? how did you manage to tune the steering via the app.. I also hear that the Eco app only supports Android applications at present?

Be great to hear back from you with clarity on these points.

cheers
Nic
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Old 09-19-2019, 07:13 AM   #7
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Default Ecorider E8??

Further to my last post, I have spoken to Ecorider about how unstable the E8-2 is and I also asked Ecorider about their other models being more stable.. their reply was

..." But according to customers feedback,most of them prefer to drive 21inch wheel.And this is more competitive to sell.
And you know our scooter is not Original Segway,they are different products with different cost. On gyro system we know Segway is better,and they develop double gyro controller system which is not workable in our scooters at present. So may have too much expectation on our design to compare to Original Segway"..

So they are effectively saying they don't have other feedback from customers that the E8-2 is so unstable... which really is surprising. I'd been keen Ramsey252 to find out which model you are using that works and how you tune your steering on that model as when I ask them that they just don't respond.

Cheers nic.
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Old 09-25-2019, 10:11 AM   #8
Civicsman
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Regarding Segway's requirement to use new, or formally remanufactured, parts for repair; this is consistent with every car dealer's repair department, and every independent auto mechanic I have ever dealt with.

There is legal liability with every repair, and the risk goes up significantly by using unknown parts. Imagine a court trial for injury, and the repair company telling a magistrate that they were not sure whether the replacement part was actually good. It's bad enough with new/reman parts. At one point in my career, I performed on-the-road testing of automotive electronic controls and sensors returned from the field as failed. The vast majority had "no trouble found", after hundreds of miles of testing. HOWEVER, the legal department (of the Fortune 50 company that I worked for) told us that if we ever got in an accident while testing this stuff, and someone got hurt and went to court, the company "would pay the plaintiff. $10 million. $20 million. Just to avoid the court judgment". That's a quote that I have never forgotten.

In addition, as other posters have mentioned, "real" Segs (Gen1 & Gen2) have redundancy on almost every part. Other companies skip the cost of redundancy, but at the risk (probability) of eventual face plant.

Without redundancy, a tourist service had better have very good liability insurance.

Last edited by Civicsman; 09-25-2019 at 10:17 AM..
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Old 11-29-2020, 09:31 AM   #9
MikeCap
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Thank you all for your insite on the E8-2. My wife and I rented X2's in Vermont USA a few years back. I always wanted a couple for personal recreation. Looked at the Echoscooter E8-2 and Roboscooter Z1-D (for twice the price, and supposedly US made). Any insight/experience on the Z1-D? I don't want to buy something I will be disappointed in but on the other hand I don't want to over spend as well. Our usage would be light.
Thank you 😊.
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Old 11-30-2020, 01:52 PM   #10
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Default Can you tune the E8's staring as well?

Hi Ramsey252

Were you not able to tune the steering of E8-2 using the app as well? Could you describe exactly why the E8-2 does not feel safe? The reason I ask is I was just on the verge of purchasing 2 when I found this form. My short list was the EcoRider and the Roboscooter Z1-D Plus The Z1-D would set me back $2,000 US more then the EchoRider. For me that is a large chunk of change since these are for personal use not a business, so I want to make the best choice. The the z1-d claims to have handpicked parts that are of the highest quality possible, but everything is manufactured in China. So I am asking because I am trying to determine if I am comparing apples to oranges or apples to apples.

Thanks
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