differences between nimh and lithium on i180

[Dr.]

Hello,
I've found a good used i180 that used to be rented to tourists.
This Segway has restored nimh batteries, but I saw that many i180's sold in the US have lithium batteries.
Could someone please explain the differences between these two types of batteries on the i180?
Does the segway have the same speed? Is it lighter? Do they have the same range? Once charged, does the charge last the same and do they take longer to charge? Do they last longer?
I just about everything about the differences of the two technologies, because I'm thinking that if the lithium is much better, I'd rather spend 500 Euros more and get a segway with these.

Thank you so much. I really appreciate any suggestion and help.

[SegNerd]

NiMH are physically slightly smaller. I think they are also lighter. They experience the "memory effect," they are less expensive, they are legal to carry on airplanes, and they can easily provide a robust power source for 1-2 blocks, after which you have to push your Segway home while everyone points and laughs at you.

Okay, that's an exaggeration - if NiMH batteries are brand new and healthy, they can last longer, but they are still not nearly as good as Lithium-Ions. Your Segway will run at the same speed with either battery. Lithium Ions are bigger, heavier, more expensive, and illegal to take on an airplane, but they will also get you to your destination since they last MUCH longer.

In short, yes, Lithium is much better, unless you are hoping to put your Segway on an airplane. (This is based on United States/FAA aviation laws; it may be different where you live.)

[Civicsman]

Hazardous air cargo is defined internationally. Lithium Ion batteries are hazardous materials, most especially when there is large mass of them being shipped together, but one set of Segway batteries have enough energy content, all by themselves, to fall into the "hazardous" category. Note that being defined "hazardous", doesn't necessarily mean they are dangerous. This forum has had many discussions about the relatively safe lithium ion technology in the Saphion batteries used by Segway.

Any country that doesn't abide by those Hazardous Materials rules is not someplace where you would want to be getting on an airplane, anyway.

Lithium ion batteries are the best way to go, if you can afford them and if you don't need to fly.

[PeteInLongBeach]

MTO Battery can rebuild the NiMH battery packs with somewhat higher Ah cells, which should put the operating range somewhere between the standard NiMH and Lithium battery packs.

http://mtobattery.com/store/page44.html

[bruneje]

I have nimh's and lithium batteries, the nimh's are close to 8 years old and still give me 12-14 KM on a charge, if I am stopped at a cafe or someone's house I recharge while having coffee, etc. My Lithiums are 2 years old and give me 20-22Kms a charge. The big advantage with the NIMH's is that I can travel with them, a bigger gas tank is always good but having to stop to recharge as not been a big problem. Speed is the same.

[SegNerd]

Civicsman, thanks for the info about international regulations. I didn't know for sure whether or not they were different. I've just found that some people (not speaking about anyone in particular) have a tendency to assume that their own local customs must be the only way anybody does things, anywhere. In my opinion, this is kind of racist, so I try not to assume that I know things about places I've never been (like Italy).

Bruneje, I'm glad you live in a place that is friendly enough where you can ask for permission to charge and people will give it to you. Sadly, many places are UNfriendly enough that people try to charge things (not necessarily Segways) without asking, and literally get arrested for it. In some other places, there is just no one around to ask.

PeteInLongBeach, I have also heard good things about MTO.

[Dr.]

Hi,
Thank you all for the excellent explanation, that's exactly what I wanted to know.

I thought about the MTOBattery services and I also found out they have a "3.3Ah NiMH DIY Battery Kit" for only 500 US$, but since the current conditions of our lawsuit happy society they are unable to provide any instruction on how to assemble/disassemble the batteries.
If only I could have some sort of instruction manual I would buy them straight away.

I can understand that MTO doesn't want to have any trouble with customers, but not giving any info. at all on how to rebuild a battery is too much. I'm tempted to try it out even though I've never dealed with such components, but I'm afraid it might be a waste of money.

Does anyone know about a guide for this purpose?
If someone has ever done this job, it would be nice to have a section in the Forum that could be a guide for newbies like me.

Thanks for your support

[KSagal]

Originally Posted by SegNerd

Civicsman, thanks for the info about international regulations. I didn't know for sure whether or not they were different. I've just found that some people (not speaking about anyone in particular) have a tendency to assume that their own local customs must be the only way anybody does things, anywhere. In my opinion, this is kind of racist, so I try not to assume that I know things about places I've never been (like Italy).

Bruneje, I'm glad you live in a place that is friendly enough where you can ask for permission to charge and people will give it to you. Sadly, many places are UNfriendly enough that people try to charge things (not necessarily Segways) without asking, and literally get arrested for it. In some other places, there is just no one around to ask.

PeteInLongBeach, I have also heard good things about MTO.

SegNerd, I have not heard of people getting arrested for charging things (not necessarily segways) but can imagine that if you try to charge a device without permission, are you not taking electrical energy you did not pay for? I suspect that would be the charge, some sort of larceny. Is this so?

My personal experience with trying to charge segways while out and about, is that I do not recall ever being told no. Surely I have done it at friend's homes, and recall one earlier visit to a buddy a mile or so from home back in my E-167 NiMH days, specifically because I did not think I could make it home. (I plugged into his garage for 1/2 hour and we talked, and I topped off more than enough)

Even at restaurants and public places, I have not been refused, and on one occasion at a restaurant in NYC many years ago, we had a dozen or more segways plugged into a Hooters outdoor patio, via several power strips. The restaurant was very friendly and accommodating (as I believe is their SOP).

[Tarkus]

If you have a choice skip the lithium ions and gets some repacks from MTO.

I have had zero problems with the re-packs and the range difference is negligible.
Lions on the othe hand have been troublesome for me.

Be Big,
AMAC

[MTOBATTERY]

Thanks Alan for the positive feedback.

Dr., we have been around the bush a few times and like so many things in life a few people ruin it for all. People have filed lawsuits against us "because your instructions didn't say to unplug my soldering iron when I was done and now my garage caught fire" and incidents like such. Hence, we were obligated to protect our interests accordingly. I'll gladly provide some "advise" verbally over the phone but it should be considered as just that "advise" and not detailed instruction which would imply liability.