Maintenance on Segways

chbrowning · 01-23-2005, 06:03 AM

I am preparing to start a rental business and I am wondering what kind of maintenance I am looking at. Maybe some of you rental pros can chime in. Is there much maintenance involved when the Segways are being used every day? I own one personally and have never had any trouble with it. I just want a heads up before I get started. I don't look forward to this venture if there are a lot of headaches with the machines. Thanks for any input.

Florida Ever-Glides · 01-23-2005, 11:03 AM

The bigger you are the bigger the problems. The smaller you are the smaller the problems. Hint: if you rent the fleet out expect considerable potential damage to your machines. And, find the best possible attorney, you will need them sooner rather than later. As for rental insurance, forget about it...

Tom Jacobson
http://www.floridaever-glides.com

pam · 01-23-2005, 11:50 AM

Tom just posted about a problem with his handlebars on one machine in another thread. I don't recall his posting about other problems over the course of his business, except for possibly tire replacement - and the usual one of battery wearing out over the course of of a year or two. The traditional maintenance you can mostly do - reconditioning the batteries every so often, as an example. And you need to be really careful in terms of security when the office is closed.

A few people have had problems with chafing of the wires inside the control shaft, and occasionally we hear of someone who has had a problem with safety-shutdowns (which is usually a platform fault issue, and requires a trip back to the factory). Those are more rare, and probably a part of doing any sort of business, but must be mentioned. I think that over the last year there have been 6 or 7 people who have mentioned this problem of platform fault issue. We've had a thread or two on the chafing of the wires in the CS and how people have dealt with them. (They usually occur when people do a lot of changing of heights of the control shaft - so it might be something you could be alert to. YOu might do a search on chafing and see if you can pull those threads.)

Depending on how you run your business, you will be more or less likely to have actual problems. Tom is very careful to do thorough demos and is with his 6 or 8-9 people for their entire trip, and frequently has his wife there also. As a result, there's not a lot of hotdogging, so problems like broken handlebars, broken fenders, etc. are less likely to happen. If you rent out to people unsupervised, then you are more likely to have these kinds of issues. A new handlebar is around $600, so that really cuts into your profits.

And renting to people unsupervised can be problematic in terms of finding an insurance carrier who is happy to carry you. There are no real standards out there, yet, like rental cars, where everyone has to have a driver's license which shows a level of expertise, and either their own insurance or purchase insurance from the rental agency.

The "open" rental model is currently being done by Keolis in France. You might google them and ask some questions directly.

Rentals, ideas, models, etc. were discussed pretty thoroughly at Segfest 2004, and I found them fascinating.

Your biggest problems might fall in the area of getting the local legal/commercial establishment on board. Politics always plays a part in the success of these kinds of businesses, I think, and there are some places where it would not be a good investment. Key West is one place, for sure. Tom has done VERY well in this regard in Sarasota. I hope this is more the kinds of things you were thinking of. The more responsibly a rental business is run, the better it is for all the other rental owner/operators - particularly in the area of insurace availabilty for the other owner/operators - but also in the area of making this such a 'fun' event for the renters that you have return business.
Pam

chbrowning · 01-23-2005, 03:48 PM

Thanks for the input. I guess it's a good thing that I'm an attorney, but I really don't like the idea of being sued. I am aware of Tom's successful business in Sarasota, but I don't think that business model will work here. So I will have to stick to straight rental.

I frequently see posts in this forum talking about damaged segways and obtaining insurance in a rental business. However, I have a friend who owns a successful scooter rental business in Las Vegas and they repeatedly have damaged scooters, and yet they still turn a profit. They take a damage deposit and if you bring back the scooter damaged, the renter loses his deposit, even though you may not replace or fix the damage (e.g. cosmetic damage only). These deposits add up and when you do have to actually replace something, you have collected enough deposits to pay for it.

As to insurance, I have not tackled that area yet. Any suggestions would be appreciated. However, I can't imagine insurance would be too difficult to obtain. If these scooter rental businesses can get insurance, surely I can find Segway insurance. Scooters are extremely dangerous, and anyone who has ever ridden one knows that. Thanks for any suggestions and input.

pam · 01-23-2005, 07:40 PM

You might check with your friend who owns the scooter rental and see who he uses for insurance.
Pam

Segway City · 01-23-2005, 08:17 PM

Speak to Lora VanDixhorn at Stanton & Associates Insurance in Westlake Village, California. They have a contact site at http://www.insuranceforbicycles.com and at http://www.stanton-ins.com. I've spoken with her several times and she is top notch, and eager to assist. You'll also find their rates very affordable.

Florida Ever-Glides · 01-23-2005, 09:35 PM

Lora WILL NOT insur a Segway Rental business!!! Way too risky for her underwriter. And how do I know, I helped her set the safety criteria on who to insure.

Tom Jacobson
http://www.floridaever-glides.com

chbrowning · 01-23-2005, 11:15 PM

I just don't understand the great concern these underwriters have. For many years people have been renting bicycles, scooters, motorcycles, jet skis, speed boats, four wheelers and many other way more dangerous things than Segways and they have been able to get insurance.

SegwayBill · 01-23-2005, 11:50 PM

Segway technician training can be good insurance, plus a supply of spare parts, wheels, batteries, handle bars and fenders. Backup copies of all keys and clearly ID all machines. Mandatory helmets and shoes could save a life or a toe, beginners get over confident too quickly leading to silly accidents. Be extra watchful of younger and drunk gliders they tend to push there machines too much too soon and get bucked off. seen it happen more then once.

Bill

Segway City · 01-24-2005, 01:15 AM

As a lawyer, you know how to make informed decisions by researching an issue. Some may have a self-serving interest in steering you away from considering an operation such as that which you suggest. A proverb to live by is "believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see".

01-23-2005, 06:03 AM	#1
chbrowning New Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: , , . Posts: 9	Maintenance on Segways I am preparing to start a rental business and I am wondering what kind of maintenance I am looking at. Maybe some of you rental pros can chime in. Is there much maintenance involved when the Segways are being used every day? I own one personally and have never had any trouble with it. I just want a heads up before I get started. I don't look forward to this venture if there are a lot of headaches with the machines. Thanks for any input.

01-23-2005, 11:03 AM	#2
Florida Ever-Glides Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Sarasota, Florida, . Posts: 1,677	The bigger you are the bigger the problems. The smaller you are the smaller the problems. Hint: if you rent the fleet out expect considerable potential damage to your machines. And, find the best possible attorney, you will need them sooner rather than later. As for rental insurance, forget about it... Tom Jacobson http://www.floridaever-glides.com

01-23-2005, 11:50 AM	#3
pam Last of the Early 30 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Yelm, WA Posts: 4,679	Tom just posted about a problem with his handlebars on one machine in another thread. I don't recall his posting about other problems over the course of his business, except for possibly tire replacement - and the usual one of battery wearing out over the course of of a year or two. The traditional maintenance you can mostly do - reconditioning the batteries every so often, as an example. And you need to be really careful in terms of security when the office is closed. A few people have had problems with chafing of the wires inside the control shaft, and occasionally we hear of someone who has had a problem with safety-shutdowns (which is usually a platform fault issue, and requires a trip back to the factory). Those are more rare, and probably a part of doing any sort of business, but must be mentioned. I think that over the last year there have been 6 or 7 people who have mentioned this problem of platform fault issue. We've had a thread or two on the chafing of the wires in the CS and how people have dealt with them. (They usually occur when people do a lot of changing of heights of the control shaft - so it might be something you could be alert to. YOu might do a search on chafing and see if you can pull those threads.) Depending on how you run your business, you will be more or less likely to have actual problems. Tom is very careful to do thorough demos and is with his 6 or 8-9 people for their entire trip, and frequently has his wife there also. As a result, there's not a lot of hotdogging, so problems like broken handlebars, broken fenders, etc. are less likely to happen. If you rent out to people unsupervised, then you are more likely to have these kinds of issues. A new handlebar is around $600, so that really cuts into your profits. And renting to people unsupervised can be problematic in terms of finding an insurance carrier who is happy to carry you. There are no real standards out there, yet, like rental cars, where everyone has to have a driver's license which shows a level of expertise, and either their own insurance or purchase insurance from the rental agency. The "open" rental model is currently being done by Keolis in France. You might google them and ask some questions directly. Rentals, ideas, models, etc. were discussed pretty thoroughly at Segfest 2004, and I found them fascinating. Your biggest problems might fall in the area of getting the local legal/commercial establishment on board. Politics always plays a part in the success of these kinds of businesses, I think, and there are some places where it would not be a good investment. Key West is one place, for sure. Tom has done VERY well in this regard in Sarasota. I hope this is more the kinds of things you were thinking of. The more responsibly a rental business is run, the better it is for all the other rental owner/operators - particularly in the area of insurace availabilty for the other owner/operators - but also in the area of making this such a 'fun' event for the renters that you have return business. Pam

01-23-2005, 03:48 PM	#4
chbrowning New Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: , , . Posts: 9	Thanks for the input. I guess it's a good thing that I'm an attorney, but I really don't like the idea of being sued. I am aware of Tom's successful business in Sarasota, but I don't think that business model will work here. So I will have to stick to straight rental. I frequently see posts in this forum talking about damaged segways and obtaining insurance in a rental business. However, I have a friend who owns a successful scooter rental business in Las Vegas and they repeatedly have damaged scooters, and yet they still turn a profit. They take a damage deposit and if you bring back the scooter damaged, the renter loses his deposit, even though you may not replace or fix the damage (e.g. cosmetic damage only). These deposits add up and when you do have to actually replace something, you have collected enough deposits to pay for it. As to insurance, I have not tackled that area yet. Any suggestions would be appreciated. However, I can't imagine insurance would be too difficult to obtain. If these scooter rental businesses can get insurance, surely I can find Segway insurance. Scooters are extremely dangerous, and anyone who has ever ridden one knows that. Thanks for any suggestions and input.

01-23-2005, 07:40 PM	#5
pam Last of the Early 30 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Yelm, WA Posts: 4,679	You might check with your friend who owns the scooter rental and see who he uses for insurance. Pam

01-23-2005, 08:17 PM	#6
Segway City Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Music City, Tennessee, USA. Posts: 717	Speak to Lora VanDixhorn at Stanton & Associates Insurance in Westlake Village, California. They have a contact site at http://www.insuranceforbicycles.com and at http://www.stanton-ins.com. I've spoken with her several times and she is top notch, and eager to assist. You'll also find their rates very affordable.

01-23-2005, 09:35 PM	#7
Florida Ever-Glides Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Sarasota, Florida, . Posts: 1,677	Lora WILL NOT insur a Segway Rental business!!! Way too risky for her underwriter. And how do I know, I helped her set the safety criteria on who to insure. Tom Jacobson http://www.floridaever-glides.com

01-23-2005, 11:15 PM	#8
chbrowning New Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: , , . Posts: 9	I just don't understand the great concern these underwriters have. For many years people have been renting bicycles, scooters, motorcycles, jet skis, speed boats, four wheelers and many other way more dangerous things than Segways and they have been able to get insurance.

01-23-2005, 11:50 PM	#9
SegwayBill Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Phoenix AZ Posts: 858	Segway technician training can be good insurance, plus a supply of spare parts, wheels, batteries, handle bars and fenders. Backup copies of all keys and clearly ID all machines. Mandatory helmets and shoes could save a life or a toe, beginners get over confident too quickly leading to silly accidents. Be extra watchful of younger and drunk gliders they tend to push there machines too much too soon and get bucked off. seen it happen more then once. Bill

01-24-2005, 01:15 AM	#10
Segway City Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Music City, Tennessee, USA. Posts: 717	As a lawyer, you know how to make informed decisions by researching an issue. Some may have a self-serving interest in steering you away from considering an operation such as that which you suggest. A proverb to live by is "believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see".

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