Segway Tours Gone Bad!

[bvelke]

Originally Posted by Bob.Kerns

OK, then limit the discussion if you will to people who DO own Segways, have skin in the game, but wish to rent because they cannot bring their own.

If the right to glide in their home town isn't in jeopardy and their own machine isn't at risk of being confiscated, then it is only my skin in the game.

I have not once had someone tell me they've had a problem with people hey encountered on Segway tours. (I'm sure that's different in the vicinity of a bad one!)

It certainly is. And, as wwhopper pointed out, it leads directly to regulations that negatively impact all gliders. Legislative restrictions in ANY town affects us all because those restrictions are cited as precedent and held up as examples of "reasonable" limits on gliders. No, thanks.

While there are certainly responsible renters and responsible companies that cater to them, the exponentially-higher risk to public perception caused by unsupervised rentals is surely not justified by the pursuit of a few extra dollars.

[Bob.Kerns]

Originally Posted by bvelke

If the right to glide in their home town isn't in jeopardy and their own machine isn't at risk of being confiscated, then it is only my skin in the game.



It certainly is. And, as wwhopper pointed out, it leads directly to regulations that negatively impact all gliders. Legislative restrictions in ANY town affects us all because those restrictions are cited as precedent and held up as examples of "reasonable" limits on gliders. No, thanks.

While there are certainly responsible renters and responsible companies that cater to them, the exponentially-higher risk to public perception caused by unsupervised rentals is surely not justified by the pursuit of a few extra dollars.

Well, maybe if pursuit of a few extra dollars would be your only reason for doing so, you're right, you shouldn't.

On the other hand, if you're in business to do something positive -- maybe you should at least look for ways to make the equation balance.

That's not a veiled criticism. I'm just accepting your point, and suggesting a test for who should and shouldn't consider it.

I have nothing against someone being in business to make a living! From what I can see, you're someone who does so with integrity and I respect that. I have no right to expect you to go beyond what you feel makes sense for you and your business, as you conceive it.

Maybe it shouldn't be a business so much as an organization.

But the need is there.

Anyway, if I rent, I have exactly as much skin in the local game as if I ship. And I'm certainly willing to do that, instead, if there's a way to solve the logistics.

I already travel to non-local locations, with car, boats, and trains. It's not like the solution is to only have tourists on quality tours, and nobody else allowed to use Segways!

You can fear the consequences, you can not support it -- but in fact, we all have to address the issue of bad behavior affecting us all -- which I think was the original point of this thread. My contribution is to try to consistently present a highly visible good example wherever I go.

I do view that as sort of a mission.

[KSagal]

I see both sides of the rental debate.

I have done things with rental cars that I would not do with my own, or at least would definitely think twice before doing, especially years ago when I was less boring.

I realize that there are many jobs I am not well suited for... I camp with my family, and we go to a privately owned campground a couple weekends a year, owned by a nice guy who has become a friend, and who now owns an X2. I observe the frequent displays of idiocy that his other patrons exhibit time and time again. I would not be able to deal with this, and would invite dumb folks to do their dumb stuff elsewhere...

I could not rent my segway, could not rent my car or bike, or lawnmower... I have loaned them, but frequently not with good results.

So, where does this leave a person like myself, who would fly to a city somewhere, and would be a responsible segway renter? On my own. So be it.

But where does it leave persons who must fly for one reason or another, but also have mobility issues and segways help them? If the factory offered a current model that can be flown with, then the responsibility is on them, but since the factory does not, it seems to me that a real void does exist... And a void in a capitalistic environment is a potential for a good business...

I would think that there should be a system in place for the responsible renter, even if not for the casual one...

I must also say that I have been to segway dealers or tour operations, with and without my own segway, and most always (I cannot recall a single time when I was not well received) and have never left wishing there was a service available to me that was denied. Any good business person needs to assess their situation, and will likely act accordingly. Just because something is not a regular part of their business, does not mean that a good conversation with a decision maker cannot result in a special arrangement. Still, each situation is different. I have not gone on any mission to see if my conversation and coercion skills are universally accepted...

I would like to see a very conservative but standardized system that may make voluntary segway dealers more comfortable with limited rentals, if one could be made...

[bvelke]

I have no right to expect you to go beyond what you feel makes sense for you and your business, as you conceive it.

I'm sure that I didn't claim a right to expect other people to do anything. I said that I wouldn't support an effort to certify people who are engaged in an activity which I believe is detrimental to our industry.

If my reasoning failed to change any minds on the subject, then I can live with that disappointment.

[Florida Ever-Glides]

I am finding that:

Many tours either don't have insurance or are ignoring the limitations of their policy

Many don'r require helmets

Many are allowing riders as young as 7 years old to participate

Are conducting tours on dangerous paths

Are doing minimal to no training

Are allowing open 'see what these babys can do' riding

Are not exercising pedestrian right of way

Etc...


I kid you not, these business practices of some Segway Guided Tours is going to eventually be the 'slow death' of the industry and may very well lead to regulated use for everyone.

The biggest problem with Segway Inc. and their dealers is not what their doing to contribute to this, but what's not being done proactively to help prevent it.

Unfortunately the idea of Segway Authorized Tours had the potential of being something great for the cottage tour industry, instead Segways motive was sadly just to sell more Segways... A decision they will soon regret, as they do other bad decisions that have guided them thusfar.

I am not just here complaining about a self destructing business enterprise. I am opening this up for suggestions to turn this dangerous trend around. A solution is not easy when many folks open up a Segway tour without a clue on how to do it correctly. Plus, in this economic climate, folks are more tempted to 'cross the common sense line' in the interest of feeding the family.

I seriously looked at starting a professional association about 5 years ago, still have all of the structure 'in writing' that included a program to reward 'good tours' while making it difficult for 'bad apples' to stay in business. Maybe it's time has come?

The insurance underwriter is very concerned with the way the Segway tour industry has evolved, and they are expecting the number of claims to rise exponentially in the near future. And, I assume the number of lawsuits against Segway Inc. will also go up. I wonder if they even think about what's happening out there. In hindsight, they could have done a lot to prevent what's coming by just promoting Segway Authorized Tours as an open 'earned' program and not a silly marketing tool that didn't work very well.

Some of you guys remember years ago when I alone 'stood on my soapbox' screaming safety, safety, safety... There were not very many listeners at the time....

I still hope there is still time to correct things, before the insurance companies say "game over"....

[Bob.Kerns]

Originally Posted by Florida Ever-Glides

I am finding that:

Many tours either don't have insurance or are ignoring the limitations of their policy

Many don'r require helmets

Many are allowing riders as young as 7 years old to participate

Are conducting tours on dangerous paths

Are doing minimal to no training

Are allowing open 'see what these babys can do' riding

Are not exercising pedestrian right of way

Etc...


I kid you not, these business practices of some Segway Guided Tours is going to eventually be the 'slow death' of the industry and may very well lead to regulated use for everyone.

The biggest problem with Segway Inc. and their dealers is not what their doing to contribute to this, but what's not being done proactively to help prevent it.

Unfortunately the idea of Segway Authorized Tours had the potential of being something great for the cottage tour industry, instead Segways motive was sadly just to sell more Segways... A decision they will soon regret, as they do other bad decisions that have guided them thusfar.

I am not just here complaining about a self destructing business enterprise. I am opening this up for suggestions to turn this dangerous trend around. A solution is not easy when many folks open up a Segway tour without a clue on how to do it correctly. Plus, in this economic climate, folks are more tempted to 'cross the common sense line' in the interest of feeding the family.

I seriously looked at starting a professional association about 5 years ago, still have all of the structure 'in writing' that included a program to reward 'good tours' while making it difficult for 'bad apples' to stay in business. Maybe it's time has come?

The insurance underwriter is very concerned with the way the Segway tour industry has evolved, and they are expecting the number of claims to rise exponentially in the near future. And, I assume the number of lawsuits against Segway Inc. will also go up. I wonder if they even think about what's happening out there. In hindsight, they could have done a lot to prevent what's coming by just promoting Segway Authorized Tours as an open 'earned' program and not a silly marketing tool that didn't work very well.

Some of you guys remember years ago when I alone 'stood on my soapbox' screaming safety, safety, safety... There were not very many listeners at the time....

I still hope there is still time to correct things, before the insurance companies say "game over"....

Tom, have you considered education as a strategy? Perhaps an ebook or an online web site, with safety advice, business advice, PR advice, marketing advice, revenue enhancement ideas, a "rate yourself" form... anything you can do to put enough value into it to get people to read it?

Maybe collaborate with other concerned tour operators?

If there WERE an association, this could be done under its auspices, or it could be done separately without all the overhead and inertia to overcome.

I think I personally benefit from the operation of good tour companies (and not just by being able to take tours, which I've done and hope to do again). Between that and my natural curiosity, I'd be happy to review such a document and comment from my non-pro perspective, if you thought that'd be of any use.

[KSagal]

Originally Posted by Bob.Kerns

Tom, have you considered education as a strategy? Perhaps an ebook or an online web site, with safety advice, business advice, PR advice, marketing advice, revenue enhancement ideas, a "rate yourself" form... anything you can do to put enough value into it to get people to read it?

Maybe collaborate with other concerned tour operators?

If there WERE an association, this could be done under its auspices, or it could be done separately without all the overhead and inertia to overcome.

I think I personally benefit from the operation of good tour companies (and not just by being able to take tours, which I've done and hope to do again). Between that and my natural curiosity, I'd be happy to review such a document and comment from my non-pro perspective, if you thought that'd be of any use.

Actually, Tom has posted several times over the years about how he feels regarding this... He has posted that he worked hard on his business plan, and his formula for success, and in the past has declined to offer his knowledge for free. He was somewhat notorious for posting knowledge and access to certain information and insurance professionals and then refusing to share that information...

Perhaps he has seen to change that perspective.

[bvelke]

Originally Posted by KSagal

Actually, Tom has posted several times over the years about how he feels regarding this... He has posted that he worked hard on his business plan, and his formula for success, and in the past has declined to offer his knowledge for free. He was somewhat notorious for posting knowledge and access to certain information and insurance professionals and then refusing to share that information...

That's not what I've found. I've spoken to him about several subjects over the years and he has been very generous with his time and help.

Maybe there's some other explanation.

[MaddFinn]

at one time Inc. (2008) did have a "Train the Trainer" certification program that was very intense and very detailed and if expanded into the dealer/tour business may have helped, but it was directed more towards commercial customers (law enforcement, government, etc) and never made it to the tour business.

[KSagal]

Originally Posted by bvelke

That's not what I've found. I've spoken to him about several subjects over the years and he has been very generous with his time and help.

Maybe there's some other explanation.

This is great to hear. Perhaps my earlier impressions from him are antiquated…

I like to the think the best when the facts allow, so perhaps an update in my presumptions is in order. Unlike some large cats, people can change their spots from time to time.

I look forward to positive perspectives and solution oriented activities from him in the future.