A Different Rental Model?

[bvelke]

The fallacy of the ski rental analogy is that everyone who is "at risk" on the slopes is from the same population of devotees. They have accepted the behavior and are voluntarily participating in the risk.

On city streets and sidewalks, the danger is that unsupervised renters are Segway ambassadors in a community of people, most of whom have no personal experience with the subject matter and many of whom perceive the Segway to be dangerous and an unwelcome intrusion in their communities. If the renters are not statesmen and respectful citizens (as we know many are not when they have no personal investment), then, regardless of their level of riding experience, they tend validate the worst fears of the community. That leads to prohibitive legislation which makes it even less likely that responsible gliders will ever have an opportunity to educate the public.

[KSagal]

I too see faults in the ski rental analogy, as the likelihood of renting skis and then annoying people on the sidewalk in front of their house, or smacking into a person exiting a business or car on main street is fairly small, where a rental of a segway, that can be much higher, but there is an analogy that may work...

I can see rentals in an area like the mountains, or ski areas in summer, and the rentals are x2s. Then the analogy is much closer, though there may be restrictions on some trails and locations...

Rental equipment for skydiving is not uncommon, but the analogy is not that dis-similar to the ski slopes, most people who would rent a parachute are knowledgeable and the most likely people to be encountered are those who share the risk, not those who are uninvolved...

I have many hundreds of thousands of miles, perhaps millions of miles driven since I started driving more than 30 years ago. I would not want car access rules to be based on a couple different times that I rented cars in Las Vegas, and some of the things I did with them...

Suffice it to say that not only would I be unlikely to take my own car so far out into the desert mountains, but have not been likely to take my own car far enough into them to have scared and surprised the fellow on that 4 wheeler ATV who could not believe a simple front wheel drive car could get to where we were... (Clearly the result of some youthful lack of good judgement)

I too do feel that across the board rentals of segways may be a recipe for disaster, but not selective rentals...

One item that was considered by a friend originally from Europe was a segway drivers license. If there was such a thing, appropriately regulated and consistent, which documented experience and training, then perhaps rentals would make more sense... (I do have such a license for skydiving and for piloting airplanes{which I do not do at the same time})

[Bob.Kerns]

Originally Posted by Halffro777

I don't understand what the advantages of renting out a Segway would be. As with any business you have to analyze the risk verses reward and I can tell you that giving someone a Segway that they are not personally vested in exposes the owner of the unit to a TREMENDOUS amount of risk. So, unless you were going to charge an amount that coincides with the risk, there just isn't enough to be gained. I get phone calls from people looking to rent a segway at least twice daily and I have never found a situation that fits all of the criteria you listed above. In most cases it is just somebody who wants to fly around and show them off to people or they want to take them to inappropriate places. I just don't see how this could be good for the community in any way.

You absolutely have to match the risk to the amount charged. Basic business.

It's interesting that you get that many calls for the sort of thing you describe. Even though there may be a sufficient market of good rentals, if there's enough people like that, we could get lost in the noise. I think you definitely have to separate out people who aren't looking for a one-time lark from those who have a temporary need for a Segway in a particular location and time, but are ready to invest in learning because it's NOT a one-time lark.

That definitely applied in my case, and it resulted in a sale. I rented again for my mother, and while that didn't result in a sale for the dealer I rented from, it did result in another Segway owner -- and we already had a track record.

So good rentals exist. But if you can't adequately distinguish them in some way, than you shouldn't do it.

I think it would take a certain amount of commitment and investment from a dealer to develop the business practices that would make it work. I think you'd have to think it through carefully, and probably have a fair bit of experience with a range of users.

But I'm likely to be in the market for renting one later this summer, and I'm hoping there is someone willing to meet that need.

[Bob.Kerns]

Originally Posted by bvelke

The fallacy of the ski rental analogy is that everyone who is "at risk" on the slopes is from the same population of devotees. They have accepted the behavior and are voluntarily participating in the risk.

On city streets and sidewalks, the danger is that unsupervised renters are Segway ambassadors in a community of people, most of whom have no personal experience with the subject matter and many of whom perceive the Segway to be dangerous and an unwelcome intrusion in their communities. If the renters are not statesmen and respectful citizens (as we know many are not when they have no personal investment), then, regardless of their level of riding experience, they tend validate the worst fears of the community. That leads to prohibitive legislation which makes it even less likely that responsible gliders will ever have an opportunity to educate the public.

The ski example is not perfect. I wouldn't term it a "fallacy", only because I wasn't offering it as a perfect match, but as a model that we could compare and contrast. On the one had, as you point out, skiers rarely injure each other, let alone uninvolved bystanders.

But then they do have a much higher rate of injury (I believe), and yet do manage to obtain insurance. There are other examples to draw from.

Is it possible to rent motorcycles or scooters? If so, that would be instructive in one way; if not, instructive in the that way as well.

The PR risks you cite are real, but quite separate from why I mentioned skiing. I can't think of any good models for that sort of risk!

You cite "personal investment" as the key factor. I agree to some degree, but I don't think it has to be on the scale of $5K. In fact, I would argue that a personal investment of time, both for training and evaluation, is a better indicator overall than money. After all, the value of money stems from the time you take to obtain it. A trust fund baby with money to burn can drop $5K on a lark and do a lot of damage, while someone who struggles to pay a couple hundred bucks for a rental, but who spends a few hours learning to use it safely and to get the most out of their rental, may be a much better bet.

[mark1qhorsey]

Originally Posted by Bob.Kerns

...Is it possible to rent motorcycles or scooters? If so, that would be instructive in one way; if not, instructive in the that way as well.

The PR risks you cite are real, but quite separate from why I mentioned skiing. I can't think of any good models for that sort of risk!

... I would argue that a personal investment of time, both for training and evaluation, is a better indicator overall than money.

...someone who struggles to pay a couple hundred bucks for a rental, but who spends a few hours learning to use it safely and to get the most out of their rental, may be a much better bet.

Good point Bob, this vigorous discussion theme has indeed educated me and, it is hoped, new and old PT business operators that there may be a bright future for EV mobility and EV ownership growth. I have noticed online that numerous EV producers and importers are literally yelling for dealership partners - offering secure sales territories - all over the USA. Since PT operators have already garnered extensive EV service / rental / touring know-how, other types EVs would potentially complement and expand your sales base, revenue, touring and btw add jobs in EV sales and service! We all win with this expanded rental / sales model - customers get choices, Operators get revenue streams. Good luck.

[Bob.Kerns]

I have one more model to offer in consideration. I can go to most any dive shop, and rent SCUBA gear, because I have a PADI card certifying that I have been extensively trained.

Now, a really paranoid shop might ask a few questions, and determine that I haven't done any dives in about 16 years, and that I have all sorts of health reasons I shouldn't dive now, but on the other hand, I'm well enough trained to know all that myself anyway.

The main similarity here to consider is that training is required. A system is available to communicate this training, and also to standardize it in a way with a certain degree of confidence in those renting, or in dive masters leading a dive. (The system is not perfect; I've had to keep a certified dive master from getting herself bent at significant risk to myself).

Another degree of (imperfect) similarity is that poor divers DO pose a risk to others -- their dive partners, and others who have to rescue them. They also pose PR risks by damaging coral and other environmental features, engaging in activities that risk losing access to remote beach areas across private property, etc.

[KSagal]

Originally Posted by Bob.Kerns

I have one more model to offer in consideration. I can go to most any dive shop, and rent SCUBA gear, because I have a PADI card certifying that I have been extensively trained.

Now, a really paranoid shop might ask a few questions, and determine that I haven't done any dives in about 16 years, and that I have all sorts of health reasons I shouldn't dive now, but on the other hand, I'm well enough trained to know all that myself anyway.

The main similarity here to consider is that training is required. A system is available to communicate this training, and also to standardize it in a way with a certain degree of confidence in those renting, or in dive masters leading a dive. (The system is not perfect; I've had to keep a certified dive master from getting herself bent at significant risk to myself).

Another degree of (imperfect) similarity is that poor divers DO pose a risk to others -- their dive partners, and others who have to rescue them. They also pose PR risks by damaging coral and other environmental features, engaging in activities that risk losing access to remote beach areas across private property, etc.

I suspect that this card is not dissimilar to the license I have from the USPA, the US Parachute Association... It is a private club, but it is recognized by all parties involved, and as far as the government is concerned, it is a self regulating sport... I suspect there are others as well, like hang gliding, Ultra light flying, and others...

As I said, I have a segway license, issued in a country in europe. The problem I see here is that there is no such club or organization that certifies the training of segway operators. Furthermore, I suspect that creating such an organization in today society would be very difficult... I suspect that it would have a great deal of difficulty in getting endorsements from government and private agencies, as well as the universal cooperation it would need from all segway users and dealers...

[mark1qhorsey]

Originally Posted by KSagal

I suspect that this card is not dissimilar to the license I have from the USPA, the US Parachute Association... It is a private club, but it is recognized by all parties involved, and as far as the government is concerned, it is a self regulating sport... I suspect there are others as well, like hang gliding, Ultra light flying, and others...

As I said, I have a segway license, issued in a country in europe. The problem I see here is that there is no such club or organization that certifies the training of segway operators. Furthermore, I suspect that creating such an organization in today society would be very difficult... I suspect that it would have a great deal of difficulty in getting endorsements from government and private agencies, as well as the universal cooperation it would need from all segway users and dealers...

The PT community might consider "self-regulation" and set up quasi-PT licensure or at least a PT training program (say 4 hour) that owners can graduate from, certified & carded carrying. Gliding then would be recognized as a skill activity, but wouldn't this be over the top? It would take a lot of dedication by the enthusiasts, and become the focus of a non-profit's activities...

[Florida Ever-Glides]

Segway rentals is a business model I looked at prior to starting my tour business. There were too many risks that were unacceptable to me, the units would get worn out much faster, some people would not use the segway in a responsible manner, and my liability exposure would increase ten-fold.

There are a few exceptions to the above where renting would be ok. I have never been a proponent of Segway rentals...