Laynebuilt Ally product has launched!

[rickb]

Perhaps an interesting video if you haven't been to the Ally website or are not aware of the Ally's manueverability as a mobility device.

[PeteInLongBeach]

I'm curious how quickly you can stop in an emergency. It would seems there is limited ability to pull back, compared to an operator in the usual standing position.

[Gihgehls]

When you depend on a Seg as your legs, you probably learn not to get into situations that require you to panic stop.

[PeteInLongBeach]

Originally Posted by Gihgehls

When you depend on a Seg as your legs, you probably learn not to get into situations that require you to panic stop.

Which of us doesn't do the same? That doesn't seem very realistic in the long run.... Unexpected things happen.

[Bob.Kerns]

Originally Posted by PeteInLongBeach

Which of us doesn't do the same? That doesn't seem very realistic in the long run.... Unexpected things happen.

Consider that a Segway can stop faster than anything but a manual wheelchair, and you'll think about it a bit differently.

People ride bicycles all the time, despite their comparatively poor braking performance.

It's really not hard to avoid the need for panic stops. All you have to do is to be slower than your environment. Then, instead of failing at a panic stop -- you got run down by someone faster.

[KSagal]

I agree with Bob.

Panic stops only occur when you are going faster than your ability to stop without panicking. If you do not out drive your ability to stop, you will not experience this problem.

I understand the argument, that sometimes we miss something, or our attention to what we are doing wavers, or something happens that we did not prepare for or see start to happen, but that is still an issue of driving beyond our attention, or ability. It happens to some people more than others.

Many of us have had very little occur that we were not prepared for, once we learned how to glide with appropriate attention to what we are doing.

If a person uses a segway as their legs, I can only imagine that the consequences are severe enough that they do not often glide beyond their ability to stop without panic.

I cannot recall a time that I would call a panic stop when walking on my feet. If I walk with a segway, I do not see why this would be different.

I agree!! "Panic Stop" non issue
The chair looks great

[PeteInLongBeach]

Originally Posted by KSagal

Panic stops only occur when you are going faster than your ability to stop without panicking. If you do not out drive your ability to stop, you will not experience this problem.

I cannot recall a time that I would call a panic stop when walking on my feet. If I walk with a segway, I do not see why this would be different.

Because THINGS HAPPEN..... And even at 1 mph, something can happen to make you stop abruptly.

I'm glad you're perfect in your interactions with the world, but I am far from it and do not agree with the statements above. And, by the way, I said "emergency", others twisted that to say "panic". Your characterizations, not mine. Bob says that a Segway can stop faster than anything but a manual wheelchair, but clearly we are not talking about a standard segway here.

Years ago, I was on the i180 on a sidewalk in a neighborhood. At that time it was my custom to ride on the yellow key in such areas, so I would not out run the environment. But even gliding at a reduced and safe speed, and aware of things around me, a little girl ran out into the sidewalk and I almost hit her. Fortunately I was able to make an emergency stop in time, leaping back off the segway to do so. Both of us were surprised and scared, but fortunately that was all.

Emergency stops happen every day, in vehicles of all sorts, and it doesn't take an operator "overdriving the conditions" for it to happen. The standard/factory segway was designed to be stopped by a standing operator utilizing their weight and the control shaft. After watching the video, I was simply wondering and asking if the wheelchair setup can stop as fast as a standard segway configuration. After watching it again (noticing the unsuccessful first attempt, and someone shouting "lean your head back"), I am also wondering and asking how controllable the wheelchair conversion is on various inclines? Is this conversion more useful and dynamically better than comparable electric wheelchairs already out in the marketplace? I do know that my i180 with the segseat cannot stop as fast sitting as it can standing, but then I have the option of standing up from the seat to stop faster or negotiate various inclines. The operator of the wheelchair conversion will not have that option. So, I'm still curious to hear some informed comments on these real-world dynamics, rather than "that wouldn't happen to me".

Does anyone remember Dean Kamen's speech at SegFest 2006? I do, and this is the kind of thing he was talking about...

[KSagal]

Pete,

I was not specifically responding to you. I was responding to the concept of panic stopping, and since you have said that you did not say that term, then clearly my comments did not include what you have said.

I agree, emergency stops are sometime required, if you glide in a way where things can happen that you did not anticipate. It can be argued, and you do, that every glide can include activities that the operator did not anticipate.

As I did say in my post, I cannot recall ever having a panic stop while walking on my feet. I did not say that I never stopped, nor that I never stopped abruptly, or even that I never backed away from something. Only that I did not recall any event that caused me to panic.

As far as your point regarding segways used while seated as compared to segways used while standing. I too was at Dean's speech that you mentioned, and have a bit of understanding as to how the segway works. I will agree that in most every situation, the segway has more responsiveness when the operator is standing, and all other factors are relatively similar.

But if you do not have feet, that is a non issue.

I have a Volvo C70, and my Wife has a Saab 9-5. I don't know which car has better breaking, but for argument's sake, let us say that from 60 mph, her Saab will stop faster than my Volvo. For the sake of this point, let us say it has the technology to stop 15 feet shorter than mine with all other factors even. We all know that some cars have better brakes than others.

Does that mean my car cannot be driven safely? I think not. It does mean that if we both drive in such a way that we have a need to emergency stop, I had better do so 15 feet sooner than her, but if I pay attention, and have better response to situations than her, I can easily out perform that technical difference in the cars with my awareness, and my driving skill and style.

Segways are no different. I know segway operators who are technically much better than me. That does not mean I can not operate mine safely. It does mean that if I try to do some of the things they do, I will likely not do them as well, or as safely. But if I keep the operation level down to my ability, then their superior skills or abilities will never come into play.

[rickb]

Ally is not a typical setup but the demo video certainly makes it appear that it is far more manueverable over varied terrain than a standard power wheelchair. My experience on Segways is limited to a two hour tour normal gliding in a standing position and a two hour demo with a SegSaddle (quality, comfortable product by the way) in a seated position. I didn't feel there was much differance in stopping time.

The Ally specs shows the seat being custom adjusted to the rider for optimal balance of the Segway in a stopped position. Weight shifting to move forward, reverse, or to stop doesn't seem dynanmically different to red flag a safety issue in a panic stop.

Casey has apparently over 3000 hours of glide time on his prototype. I hope he responds to the panic/emergency stop concern.