Health Insurance and Segway

[bgrh@mac.com]

Jayhawkfan has a stock i2 Segway that was purchased this summer from the Kansas City Segway Experience. I went up to KC to demo the SegSaddle to see if it would in fact work for Aaron. That was one of the conditions of the Iowa Voc Rehab office. The unit we attached to the Segway is shown below.



We have since sent Jayhawkfan a new seat (below) - which he is testing for us. The original seat was intended for someone who would stand and sit - and change constantly - Jayhawkfan sits only, so we needed more contact area, but he still had to be able to get his legs around it.

[segsurfer]

Originally Posted by bgrh@mac.com

Jayhawkfan has a stock i2 Segway that was purchased this summer from the Kansas City Segway Experience. I went up to KC to demo the SegSaddle to see if it would in fact work for Aaron. That was one of the conditions of the Iowa Voc Rehab office. The unit we attached to the Segway is shown below.



We have since sent Jayhawkfan a new seat (below) - which he is testing for us. The original seat was intended for someone who would stand and sit - and change constantly - Jayhawkfan sits only, so we needed more contact area, but he still had to be able to get his legs around it.

That's some intense hardware.
-segsurfer

[Bill Seright]

Originally Posted by scotty1024

In my own case the private insurer offered up the rental option. With a possibility of purchase after a year of rental...

Scott,

Eric is no longer permitted to post or even sign on here anymore or I'm sure he'd be answering you in person. He's faced much the same as you in dealing with people in public on his Segway and he uses his for the same reason you do. He's been in CHF now for about 9 1/2 years. If you want to write him privately I'm sure he would probably be able to pass along some pointers.

I know one of the things he does is to always carry a bound print out of the state law in The Professor's front bag. He did the same when he had Gilligan. If it hadn't been for the copy of the law he carried the policeman who came on the scene when he got hit by a car while on Gilligan would probably have ticketed/arrested Eric as Glendale had a law concerning the use of electric two-wheel scooters which were illegal. The EPAMD law from the state over rode the local law which was meant to ban those electric minibikes kids were zipping around town on.

Bill Seright

PS: I would like to say that here in Georgia the only place that's ever questioned either one of us about our using Segways is a national cheap-rate barbershop. We've taken them in everywhere including Wal-Mart and our polling place when voting in this month's senate run-off.

[jryan]

If I may interject I have a few more tidbits to add. Although very few private insurance companies will cover the Segway, I do know some very small HMO's will. I used to work for one (unfortunately it was a temp job so I wasn't able to get their insurance), and I posed the question about what if someone requested one. They said they would need a prescription, past that the claim would be auto-denied. After that if they filed a greivance it would be approved.

Unfortunately this HMO only operates in Wisconsin. You must have a strong will to use a Segway for a mobility device. You will constantly be questioned. Most stores, when they question you and you explain it's your mobility device and a violation of federal law to not allow you in will apologize and let you go. You will also have a problem with ignorant remarks from civilians. This happens, if you can handle it great if not, I don't suggest a Segway for a mobility device.

One pointer, if you are going to take public transportation, request a meeting with the people at the transportation office. Go there with the Segway and meet with all the bosses. Trust me, it will help. No matter what the policy (if there is any) is on the transportation system, if you don't live in an area with a lot of Segway's you are bound to have issues. If you meet with the bosses you can simply do what I do when challenged. I just say "If you could please call your boss, doesn't matter which one, they all know who I am and ask them if Jeremy Ryan can get on with his Segway that would be great".

This approach forces them to call their boss because they know, as long as I'm not bluffing, I will call the boss if they don't. For me, every boss in the Madison Metro knows my name and situation and despite the signs on the bus that say "No Segways Allowed" (they're working on new signs), any boss will tell them to let me on! Best of luck and I hope it works out, these can really revolutionize your life!

Jeremy Ryan

[glennw]

Bill;

I am new to the forum as I have recently had my first Segway "experience" as a person with a disability here in Georgia and have confirmed that it's something I can definitely find beneficial so I'll be looking to acquire one in the next few months.

I noticed that you, too, are in GA and are familiar with the GA Statutes and seem to be getting along okay. I live in Smyrna, and I wanted to be proactive in my community, and in Cobb County, so I made contact with them in advance to let them know that I would be purchasing a Segway in the next few months to use as an assisted mobility device because I was disabled.

Needless to say, the City of Smyrna initially indicated that I might be ticketed until I shared with them the State Statutes (Segway Law) and referenced the American with Disabilities Act...I'm still not sure what will happen until I get out there and try to ride.

On the other hand, and this is the real purpose of my message, and I apologize for being long winded, I also wanted to take my Segway on the Silver Comet Trail which is close to my home.

As you are probably aware, the Trail is quite long, and paved, running through several communities, where people can jog, ride bicycles, walk dogs, etc. The PATH Foundation sets up the Trail Systems in the area and have "established" a rule banning all motorized vehicles from the trails.

I went through quite a bit of bantering before the head of the PATH Foundation finally came out and told me that they allowed electrically driven wheelchairs on the trails but that was all. After a bit more research, I discovered that the PATH Foundation has NO jurisdiction over the Trails whatsoever, but can only make recommendations to the Counties, and the PATH Foundation "blackmails" the counties by saying they might not agree to sponsor future trails in their counties if they allow motorized vehicles on their trails (I handled that in a separate conversation with the head of the PATH Foundation).

SO, from there, I went to the head of the Cobb County Parks and Recreations Department, the group that oversees the Silver Comet Trail near me, explained my medical condition, citing the applicable GA Statutes, and letting him know of my intention of taking a Segway on to the Silver Comet Trail once I acquire one, and asked that they notify the Police Officers who patrol the trails that I will be doing so in the event they see me or someone tries to register a complaint.

To make a short story long, I have received back written authorization to ride the Silver Comet Trail on a Segway. I'm not sure if I went through this exercise for no reason (it was already something that had been approved and I could have just showed up and started riding along), or if no one has had a chance to ride a Segway on the Trail before. If this is a first, and anyone is interested in getting a copy of the contact info or approval process, let me know.

Happy Trails!

Glenn

Originally Posted by Bill Seright

Scott,

He's faced much the same as you in dealing with people in public on his Segway and he uses his for the same reason you do. He's been in CHF now for about 9 1/2 years. If you want to write him privately I'm sure he would probably be able to pass along some pointers.

I know one of the things he does is to always carry a bound print out of the state law in The Professor's front bag. He did the same when he had Gilligan. If it hadn't been for the copy of the law he carried the policeman who came on the scene when he got hit by a car while on Gilligan would probably have ticketed/arrested Eric as Glendale had a law concerning the use of electric two-wheel scooters which were illegal. The EPAMD law from the state over rode the local law which was meant to ban those electric minibikes kids were zipping around town on.

Bill Seright

PS: I would like to say that here in Georgia the only place that's ever questioned either one of us about our using Segways is a national cheap-rate barbershop. We've taken them in everywhere including Wal-Mart and our polling place when voting in this month's senate run-off.

[asquare]

I also just joined the forum and live in Cobb County (Marietta, GA). I've had my Segway since 2004 (bought 2 from Scott Holloway at Segway of Alpharetta) and have used it everywhere. I have Parkinson's and have difficulty walking and have a blue handicapped placard on it. My insurance didn't pay for them, but Segways are the only way to go. I don't like sitting down, looking up at the world. Plus I don't like others looking down on me. My neurologists at Emory love my Segway and believe it is actually good for me because it forces me to use other parts of my brain annd didn't want me sitting down all of the time.

I have only had 2 local places deny me entry. One was my local East Cobb Publix store, where I had shopped for 10 years, literally "threw me out" in front of everyone in 2004. When I told the manager I was disabled (which he knew because I had previously talked to him about his electric carts and their placement behind the registers and their terrible condition) he told me, "I don't care if you are disabled, you can't ride that thing in here, get out, and I mean now!" I immediately went to my car and called their corporate office. The Regional Manager called me, apologized for his manager's behavior, but informed me he was their top manager and I couldn't use my Segway because their legal department viewed them as dangerous. I was only getting one item and since I couldn't walk from the parking lot to the store chose to use my Segway. Needless to say, I haven't been in a Publix store since 2004. Kroger told me I am always welcome on my Segway and they will even have someone accompany me with a cart if I need several items. The other place was Whole Foods. They were not ugly, but told me they didn't allow them. I didn't pursue it, but I haven't been back.

I did ride it one Sunday along the Chattahoochee in Roswell, only to be yelled at by bikers and walkers as being "lazy". My husband quickly informed them I was disabled and I watched them looking for a hole to crawl into and hide. It never ceases to amaze me what people will say to complete strangers. One local in Dahlonega told me I wasn't handicapped if I could stand up.

I have travelled all over the country with my Segway and most people are curious, but are courteous and welcome me.

Oh well, good luck!

[Bob.Kerns]

Originally Posted by asquare

I also just joined the forum and live in Cobb County (Marietta, GA). I've had my Segway since 2004 (bought 2 from Scott Holloway at Segway of Alpharetta) and have used it everywhere. I have Parkinson's and have difficulty walking and have a blue handicapped placard on it. My insurance didn't pay for them, but Segways are the only way to go. I don't like sitting down, looking up at the world. Plus I don't like others looking down on me. My neurologists at Emory love my Segway and believe it is actually good for me because it forces me to use other parts of my brain annd didn't want me sitting down all of the time.

I have only had 2 local places deny me entry. One was my local East Cobb Publix store, where I had shopped for 10 years, literally "threw me out" in front of everyone in 2004. When I told the manager I was disabled (which he knew because I had previously talked to him about his electric carts and their placement behind the registers and their terrible condition) he told me, "I don't care if you are disabled, you can't ride that thing in here, get out, and I mean now!" I immediately went to my car and called their corporate office. The Regional Manager called me, apologized for his manager's behavior, but informed me he was their top manager and I couldn't use my Segway because their legal department viewed them as dangerous. I was only getting one item and since I couldn't walk from the parking lot to the store chose to use my Segway. Needless to say, I haven't been in a Publix store since 2004. Kroger told me I am always welcome on my Segway and they will even have someone accompany me with a cart if I need several items. The other place was Whole Foods. They were not ugly, but told me they didn't allow them. I didn't pursue it, but I haven't been back.

I did ride it one Sunday along the Chattahoochee in Roswell, only to be yelled at by bikers and walkers as being "lazy". My husband quickly informed them I was disabled and I watched them looking for a hole to crawl into and hide. It never ceases to amaze me what people will say to complete strangers. One local in Dahlonega told me I wasn't handicapped if I could stand up.

I have travelled all over the country with my Segway and most people are curious, but are courteous and welcome me.

Oh well, good luck!

Welcome!

My dad had Parkinson's; I wish Segways had existed back then. I, too, believe a Segway would have been very good for him.

I have a different neurological condition, genetic but connection unknown. I've encountered a lot of the same things. I think you'd be doing the world a favor (not one you owe -- I'm not criticizing if you choose not to take up the burden), of suing, when people throw you out of stores. The ADA doesn't allow people to just come up with opinions about the danger of a particular mobility aid. They have to have concrete evidence.

I've encountered issues with management at both local stores. In one case, it was expressed concern, which is ironic since the owner has a disabled daughter. In the other case, some group of male yahoos entering behind me were making loud remarks, and tried to get me in trouble by threatening to the manager to call the health department.

In both cases, I explained the law; I've been back many, many times with no further issue. I'm sorry you weren't so lucky in who you were dealing with.

[asquare]

Originally Posted by Bob.Kerns

Welcome!

My dad had Parkinson's; I wish Segways had existed back then. I, too, believe a Segway would have been very good for him.

I have a different neurological condition, genetic but connection unknown. I've encountered a lot of the same things. I think you'd be doing the world a favor (not one you owe -- I'm not criticizing if you choose not to take up the burden), of suing, when people throw you out of stores. The ADA doesn't allow people to just come up with opinions about the danger of a particular mobility aid. They have to have concrete evidence.

I've encountered issues with management at both local stores. In one case, it was expressed concern, which is ironic since the owner has a disabled daughter. In the other case, some group of male yahoos entering behind me were making loud remarks, and tried to get me in trouble by threatening to the manager to call the health department.

In both cases, I explained the law; I've been back many, many times with no further issue. I'm sorry you weren't so lucky in who you were dealing with.

in 2004 when I was denied entry to Publix with my Segway, my first call was to the Publix Corporate office and my second was to the Dept of Justice in Washington. I spoke to one of their representatives who told me, "the Segway is not approved by the FDA as a medical device and not covered under the ADA. They are dangerous because they go 12mph and have not been approved by any government agency." I told her that was odd because the FAA (a government agency)had issued a policy accepting Segways for use in airports. She said there was nothing I could do. I didn't have the energy or time to fight it, raising a teenager and participating in several Parkinson's research projects. Later I found the DRAFT website and educated myself.

We have come a long way since that time (especially with the DOJ accepting comments on Segways this past summer regarding the updates to Title II and Title III of the ADA). I asked all of my family and friends to participate and contact the DOJ.

I also believe that Segs4Vets has done a tremendous job and has definitely helped us (disabled Segway users) gain acceptance.

There is still so much misinformation about Segways out there. I always get stopped and questioned by curious people when I'm out on my Segway, mostly about how it balances, then about the speed (most people think they go 30 mph) I try to stop and educate them and to show them how easy they are to ride and how safe they are. I try to explain how important it is to me to be able to stand and how we should embrace new technology and not fear it.

I have been challenged many times trying to enter places of business with my Segway, but once I showed them my blue placard, there was no problem. I'm hoping that the new ADA revisions will protect and define the Segway as a mobility device for the disabled. If so, then I might go back to Publix once just for the satisfaction of seeing the manager's face (he's still there), but I don't really want to spend my money in a hostile environment. Maybe we could organize a group shopping spree.

[Bill Seright]

Glen,

Nice to meet you! We had asked about anyone wanting to venture the Silver Comet Trail a few months ago when the last section opened and there was no response. Then there were all the news reports of some members of a street gang who were jumping and mugging people on the Trail. And then the weather made Georgia feel more like Maine and the Segways came inside for awhile where mine's been parked. Eric's been out on his quite a few times though. He actually liked being bundled up and wearing his ski gloves though he didn't like the greatly reduced mileage he got due to the cold.

Or maybe the mileage wasn't reduced at all and it's just the infokey that doesn't work real well in cold weather indicating the charge left in the battery is much less than the charge actually is.

But setting something up since it looks like Georgia is finally going to start getting some Georgia like weather in the coming weeks could definitely be fun. I don't know how many more we can get. There were ten of us on a Stone Mountain ride six months ago. Scott's the local dealer and after Stone Mountain he told us he was always up for a group glide provided he's got enough advance notice and can get more gliders together as well.

If you want to talk to Eric about local handicapped rules and what he's run into with The Professor why don't you drop him an email? I don't want to put his address out here publicly and don't have access to sending private messages through here but you can get his email address from jryan here who does have access to private messages. Or you can send me an email william.seright@gmail.com

I'm sure Eric would love to hear from you.

Bill Seright

[Bob.Kerns]

Originally Posted by asquare

in 2004 when I was denied entry to Publix with my Segway, my first call was to the Publix Corporate office and my second was to the Dept of Justice in Washington. I spoke to one of their representatives who told me, "the Segway is not approved by the FDA as a medical device and not covered under the ADA. They are dangerous because they go 12mph and have not been approved by any government agency." I told her that was odd because the FAA (a government agency)had issued a policy accepting Segways for use in airports. She said there was nothing I could do. I didn't have the energy or time to fight it, raising a teenager and participating in several Parkinson's research projects. Later I found the DRAFT website and educated myself.

...

There is still so much misinformation about Segways out there. I always get stopped and questioned by curious people when I'm out on my Segway, mostly about how it balances, then about the speed (most people think they go 30 mph) I try to stop and educate them and to show them how easy they are to ride and how safe they are. I try to explain how important it is to me to be able to stand and how we should embrace new technology and not fear it.

I have been challenged many times trying to enter places of business with my Segway, but once I showed them my blue placard, there was no problem. I'm hoping that the new ADA revisions will protect and define the Segway as a mobility device for the disabled. If so, then I might go back to Publix once just for the satisfaction of seeing the manager's face (he's still there), but I don't really want to spend my money in a hostile environment. Maybe we could organize a group shopping spree.

It's too bad you got someone uneducated at the DOJ.

There is no requirement at all in law or regulations that it be approved by the FDA to be used as a mobility device. (To be *marketed* as one is a completely different matter). Obviously, that person was winging it, and you deserved a more considered answer.

The answer is *particularly* nuts, because many FDA-approved power chairs go much faster than Segways.

Contrary to your experience, I find that most people are surprised they go as FAST as 12.5. Probably because they see me pushing a shopping cart, or ambling along with the crowd... When they find out they can do 12.5, and that that's almost what a bike can comfortably do, they start to look at it as being a bit more practical.

Probably the difference has something to do with where we live. Around here, there are lots of bicyclists, many of them commuting, and a need for some speed because things are spread out.

I also emphasize that they can go zero miles an hour comfortably. Which is sort of stating the obvious, because there I am, standing comfortably, gesticulating with both hands.