Health Insurance and Segway

[theflyer]

Hello Segway Chat. This is my first post. I'm well into the process of purchasing a segway to improve my mobility (I have FSHD Muscular Dystrophy and do have a permanent disability placard from Virginia) and was very happy to find this forum as well as the DRAFT site. Lots of good info to be found. However, I've yet to find any information on whether it is possible to get health insurance to cover the cost of a Segway.

So my question is this. Has anyone been successful in having health insurance cover the cost of the segway and what were the steps needed to accomplish that task?

As an aside, on this forum and across the web, there are quite a few horror stories of folks being denied the use of their segway as a mobility device. Would you say that such occurrences are infrequent, frequent, or pervasive?

Thanks in advance

[Tarkus]

Originally Posted by theflyer

Hello Segway Chat. This is my first post. I'm well into the process of purchasing a segway to improve my mobility (I have FSHD Muscular Dystrophy and do have a permanent disability placard from Virginia) and was very happy to find this forum as well as the DRAFT site. Lots of good info to be found. However, I've yet to find any information on whether it is possible to get health insurance to cover the cost of a Segway.

So my question is this. Has anyone been successful in having health insurance cover the cost of the segway and what were the steps needed to accomplish that task?

As an aside, on this forum and across the web, there are quite a few horror stories of folks being denied the use of their segway as a mobility device. Would you say that such occurrences are infrequent, frequent, or pervasive?

Thanks in advance

Welcome.

At this point there are no, nor have I heard of anybody that got a private insurance carrier to cover the cost of a Segway.

As far as access, "horror stories" are only as good as the source.
Lets start with all properties owned by Disney or Anheuser Bush Entertainment they are 'No Fly Zones". There are some lawsuits ongoing but it's my belief that they will only relent when forced by The Dept. of Justice.

They are in violation of Title III of the ADA, and other Laws and they know it.

DOJ is in the process of some rule changes so we will see.

Most other places have not been a problem. Of course that will depend on your day to day life and where you go.

When one uses a Segway as a Mobility Aid one also must be educated about the law.
I would go to DRAFT chat to read and download the documents in this thread:

http://www.draft.cc/draft3/DRAFTCHAT...c/Default.aspx

Will you be challenged at some point, Yep so be nice smile and be prepared to express your rights. Always get the names and positions of those your dealing with.

Don't let any of that stop you. I travel all over the country and it's rare that I have major issues with my Segway use.

Be Big,
Alan

[wwhopper]

And probably never be approved. So right there the insurance company will say forget about it, we are not covering the cost of a Segway.

Though plenty of people use a Segway to aide their mobility, but they have purchased it, just like any other consumer device.

I would say, if you have a need, and you think a Segway would help you, find someone close by to let you try one out, or go to a dealer.

Will you be challenged on it, for sure, this site is full of stories, most of them have a happy ending, but you will not be given a free reign to glide where you want when you want, just because you are on a Segway.

The best way to find out if one works for you, is to try one out. Use it during your normal daily routine, the nice thing about the Segway (non off road model) is that it can be used indoors as well as out doors.

Good luck, and keep us informed of your progress!

[Bob.Kerns]

Originally Posted by wwhopper

Segways are not FDA approved for medical uses
And probably never be approved. So right there the insurance company will say forget about it, we are not covering the cost of a Segway.

Though plenty of people use a Segway to aide their mobility, but they have purchased it, just like any other consumer device.

I would say, if you have a need, and you think a Segway would help you, find someone close by to let you try one out, or go to a dealer.

Will you be challenged on it, for sure, this site is full of stories, most of them have a happy ending, but you will not be given a free reign to glide where you want when you want, just because you are on a Segway.

The best way to find out if one works for you, is to try one out. Use it during your normal daily routine, the nice thing about the Segway (non off road model) is that it can be used indoors as well as out doors.

Good luck, and keep us informed of your progress!

Just to add to Will's explanation...

They're not FDA approved not because they couldn't be, but because Johnson & Johnson has rights to the use of the self-balancing technology, so Segway, Inc would find it very difficult to pursue that line, and little-to-no economic incentive to do so.

FDA approval doesn't mean you can use it, nor does it have any bearing whatsoever on the ADA. FDA approval merely means it cannot be marketed as a medical device, and no medical claims can be made about it.

Oddly enough, if they did make claims, without going through the FDA pre-marketing approval process, the FDA would regard it as an "adulterated product under section 501(f)(1)(B)", the way the law is written. (I think that's the right section, but you get the idea). FDA enforcement letters for unapproved products for which people are making medical claims ("supplements", mostly) are sometimes weird exercises in language.

So if you wonder why Segway, Inc. doesn't do more to help the mobility-impaired user community, perhaps this will make their situation a bit more clear. They're caught between a contractual rock and a regulatory hard place on the issue.

But none off that prevents we users, nor our doctors, nor DRAFT, from taking the matter into our own hands, and we (currently, at least) have the full support of the ADA on our side for doing so.

I'm none too clear on the impact of the proposed revisions, nor what the DOJ will actually do.

But it seems to me that the current trend, anyway, is toward increasing access, and increasing awareness of the rights of disabled, and of the Segway as a legitimate mobility aid.

[theflyer]

Thank you for the insightful responses. The answers are sadly as I expected given what I'd read on the DRAFT site. I've ridden an original model segway on a Florida tour group and had no problems and have ridden the i2 just this last weekend here in DC at the shop I would procure it from. I was prepared to purchase it outright but wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.

The next step for me is to speak with uhaul to make sure they can mount a receiver hitch on my Camry (and to do so if they can) so that I can install the rack to transport the Segway.

wwhopper, I see u are in DC. Are there any Segway social groups that go out and tour (or I guess I should say "glide" together) in the area?

[driley]

I think whether or not an insurance company will pay or not has much more to do with the bottom line of the insurance than anything else. Insurance companies pay for all sorts of accepted medical devices or aids that are not FDA approved. Power and manual wheelchairs, walkers, canes etc.

The fact the manufacturer states it is not a medical device (reasons already listed) simply makes it easy for the insurance companies to say no. Insurance companies pay lots of employees and specialists whose primary goal on the job is to say no.

[dgbint]

A client here in Australia had one go through his medical insurance.

The client was an amputee ( industrial accident ) and had high medical costs.
The client suggested to his case manager that his regular medical costs would probably reduce if he was living a higher quality of life ( if he got a Segway ).

The client suggested that instead of about 5 medical + therapy appointments a week, he anticpated maybe only 1 a week or so.

The client suggested that a saving of about 4 x $100+ appointments each week might be to everybody's advantage.

The case manager signed off on that argument.

Now, this is just one case, that one case manager signed off.
It's hardly a legal precedent, but it is noteworthy.

Good Luck.
Michael

[Suzined]

Be sure to get your doctor to recommend a Segway and make sure the recommendation is part of yourt medical records. Then buy a Sergway and deduct the cost as a medical expense. Be sure to include the hitch, hauler, helmet, gloves, etc., etc., as medical equipment. Not as good as getting your insurance to pay for it but a tax deduction is always a smiley sort of thing.

Listen to Tarkus. He's a wealth of good info...even if his Segway CS is held together by duct tape. Should we send his Segway get well cards?

[segaddict]

Most private health policies specifically exclude coverage for the purchase of mobility devices and other accoutrements. This "policy" arose from the days when physicians started prescribing hot tubs, barcaloungers, and all kinds of comfort devices for "back pain," high blood pressure, etc.

Your best bet is with your state government that may pay for it depending on programs and legislation, or purchasing it and taking a federal tax right off if it is prescribed by a physician under the strict parameters, and as long as it, along with other expenses meet the percentage threshold contrasted with your income.

Good luck.

[scotty1024]

In my own case the private insurer offered up the rental option. With a possibility of purchase after a year of rental.

At the time the permanent damage to my heart hadn't yet been revealed by a nuclear camera scan. The hope before that was that after a year I'd be a New Man and back on my own feet with no permanent consequences.

I had always wanted a Segway of my own and my CHF was an excellent "excuse" to purchase one.

Would I recommend purchasing a Segway as a mobility aid to others?

At this point: not just no, but hell no. You have to have incredibly thick skin and a thick skull to go along with it.

My daily stress level has been such that the medical benefits from the device have been to a degree over ridden.

I face daily discrimination from bus operators, passengers, people walking down the streets and the local police. Every one agrees that disabled people should be in wheelchairs, doesn't matter that the Segway is better for your heart's recovery. Disabled people should look and be maximally disabled otherwise they are the nail that needs to be firmly pounded down (into a wheelchair).

These days they have tests for an amazing array of things, including stress. My recent reversals in my progress triggered some of the blood based heart stress tests to be performed and what do you know? I need to cut back on the stress in my life. <--- Insert crazy laugh here

I've spent the last eight weeks as sugar cured long pig. I realize now that the hyperglycemia was a withdrawal from the stressors. The world gets fluffy and distant when your blood sugar is around 287. Your mind gets numb and your emotional reactions dulled. I was taking all my meds but they have to keep tweaking them and I just let the fluffiness pull me in.

Eventually though it catches up with you and you get sicker instead of better. You start bleeding from your rectum and you get pulled in and they start figuring things out. You get lectured and told to cut out the stress and you laugh.

My immune system was also compromised and I've been sick the last four days. I've burned up my sick days again and now I face having to commute to work again tomorrow morning before I'm recovered. The doctors were right about two things: no stress, and don't get sick. Both are a real problem with CHF.

A previous poster pointed out that Disney was one of the corporate poster cases for anti-Segway sentiment on private property. Well I can testify that their movie Wall*e is also a major source of stress in my life. Having 10 year old children call you lazy as you Segway to get groceries is really quite wrenching. I now tell the little ones I hope they never have to discover how not lazy I am.

So a hearty F You to Disney, with feeling, from the bottom of my broken heart. May the hard economic times ahead catch you asleep and lead you to Chapter 7. Yeah I should be more "Christian" about it but so should they.

The most humorous part of all to me? The Cardiologist whom was using the F word to describe how badly he didn't want me using a Segway, wanted me to walk everywhere: he's now impressed. If it wasn't for the permanent damage I'd have reached the 12 month recovery point in 7 months.

My Primary Care Provider, whom wrote me up for the Disabled Placard. She is firmly convinced I still need the Segway. The week before last, concerned I might wind up in the ER after seeing her over the bleeding rectum issue I walked the two blocks to her clinic (the clinic doesn't even have a bike rack). When I got there I was breathing hard and in chest pain. We did the whole 12 lead EKG, O2 bottle and broke open their crash cart to get me a nitro pill for my blood pressure stat scene. The ensuing exchange ended with "Please ride your Segway next time!"

So I should be happy I made "the right call" but why do I feel like I didn't at the amount of dread I feel at commuting to work in the morning?

And for the anti-Segway lurkers that read my posts here and then ride the bus with me... Nutz to you in spades now. Metro has officially reversed their stance on Segways. Instructions for strapping them down are posted on the operator bulletin boards. Everytime an operator mis-behaves its taken seriously.

But each incident also takes its toll on me. A little piece of my health is part of the cost for each re-educated operator.

One other piece of good news. They've even fully coordinated with Sound Transit and a Universal Accessibility Services sticker is in the works (or in the mail as I've been told). Assuming you can take the heat the sticker will even let you on the new light rail system they're in the process of commissioning here. From the sound of things that would put Seattle ahead of several larger cities in accessibility for Segway operators.

So back to the original poster. Insurance coverage for your Segway is the least of the issues I've faced. I hope for you it turns out to be the biggest issue.