CA Acadamy of Sciences -- NO GO

[GlennO]

I am afraid to say that you are not going about this the right way. San Francisco is sooo PC it isn't funny. What you need to do is to get a lawyer and a judege that is NOT in San Francisco. Or at least understand that you will loose in San Francisco and only win in a higher district court, which very well may be in Sacramento.

I don't know if this will help or hurt my opinion on that city but the Speaker of the House is from there.

Glenn

[Timm]

A little new to the site for posting but but I think Bob did the right thing because with his help yesterday and today...

a zillion emails back and forth from the Mayors office and Academy of Sciences and a band of attorneys in San Francisco Bar....

I and others now have access to the Academy as long as we are seated Segways.

Bob and Alan..Thank you!



----- Original Message -----
From: Losey, Nancy
To: Timm
Cc: Alan (Tarqus) ; @sfbar.org ; @sfbar.org ; @sfbar.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 11:20 AM
Subject: RE:


Dear Mr. Aguirre,



If you Segway is a seated device, you are welcome to use it in the building. Our decision not to allow the standard Segways (or any other standing mobile unit) into the building was based on our concern for all of our patrons’ safety, as well as on a conversation with the manufacturers of the Segway who told us that it is not a device that was designed or constructed to be an ADA device. We recognize that many people use them to assist their personal mobility and we did not make the decision to not allow them in the building lightly. However, after multiple incidents with the standing Segways, including one of our staff members having his foot run over with a Segway, and some school children getting knocked down by one while they were getting out of an elevator, we decided that, based on the concern for all of our patrons, we can only accommodate seated mobility devices in this building – which I will reiterate, is fully ADA compliant. Please let me know if I can answer any other questions.



Nancy Losey

[KSagal]

I am happy for any who are satisfied with this letter and the permission is offers, but that letter seemed full of made up stuff to me.

There are all kinds of references to that which I do not believe can exist, like something being manufactured to be an ADA device. Since there is no such thing as an ADA device, there has yet to ever be a manufacturer of anything that is an ADA device.

Still, if you are happy, that is good. I still think that they are making it up as they go. The ADA specifically says they cannot do that.

Good luck.

[Bob.Kerns]

Originally Posted by GlennO

I am afraid to say that you are not going about this the right way. San Francisco is sooo PC it isn't funny. What you need to do is to get a lawyer and a judege that is NOT in San Francisco. Or at least understand that you will loose in San Francisco and only win in a higher district court, which very well may be in Sacramento.

I don't know if this will help or hurt my opinion on that city but the Speaker of the House is from there.

Glenn

I had to scratch my head over this one, but finally realized you're talking about Pelosi, not the state Assembly.

Consider this, though: Willie Brown, former Speaker of the Assembly, and previous Mayor (and Mayor when they passed the original Segway ban) is pro-Segway. In fact, I met him on a Segway once, and he went on about how silly the Supervisors were being.

In other words, your comments here don't really make any sense. Yes, San Francisco is a weird and often silly place. But blanket statements like this contribute nothing, and Pelosi has nothing whatsoever to do with this.

I don't mean to say you're wrong. You may well be, and I do think it may take a lawsuit to set things aright. I'm just saying your reasoning isn't constructive or convincing -- you could have made your case much more effectively without dragging irrelevant personalities into it.

[Timm]

Good Morning...being in a powerchair and slowly making the move to a modifed Segway its about small steps.

To now have access to the academy where Bob was turned away is a win.

For myself and others that have Seats to our Segways

But more important the fact that the Mayors office and a slew of attorneys from the State Bar helped the academy get a fast lesson in ADA Rights was a bigger win!

All done by email in 2 days.

If you notice she made mention of one child getting a toe or foot run over and this is what her policy was made off of one event!

No mention if the child ran in to the Segway?

[Bob.Kerns]

Originally Posted by Timm

Good Morning...being in a powerchair and slowly making the move to a modifed Segway its about small steps.

To now have access to the academy where Bob was turned away is a win.

For myself and others that have Seats to our Segways

But more important the fact that the Mayors office and a slew of attorneys from the State Bar helped the academy get a fast lesson in ADA Rights was a bigger win!

All done by email in 2 days.

If you notice she made mention of one child getting a toe or foot run over and this is what her policy was made off of one event!

No mention if the child ran in to the Segway?

My daughter has had her toe run by the Segway over multiple times. No injury.

She's had her toe run over by a manual wheelchair once. Significant trauma, bleeding, and ER visit.

These people are supposed to be the CA Academy of Sciences, but they do not operate with any respect for scientific thought or method in their disabled policy -- while the ADA requires them to do so.

[GlennO]

Bob, you nailed it. The supervisors are part of the problem, but the whole city is like that. You will never get them to allow it, and the only recourse is to have an appeals court override the San Francisco court and get them to comply with the ADA guidelines.

Pelosi used to be a supervisor in SF, and between her and the others on the board, I saw them pass some really strange laws, and subsequently left town!

The academy of science needs to remember that when wheelchair access was made mandatory, many companies had to make changes that cost them money, and some didn't like it for other reasons too. Now though, they'll jump at anything they can.

You do realize that what you should do is to go there and get yourself arrested. It might be helpful to have an ADA attorney handy and set the whole thing up.

Glenn

[Tarkus]

The academy of science stance, and that absurd email just makes me scratch my head. Not a very bright group it seems.

They are not above the law and at some point someone will file a lawsuit or their hands will be held to the fire from above. By above I don't mean a supreme being, I mean the DOJ.

Keep up the good fight.

Be Big,
AMAC

[Bob.Kerns]

Originally Posted by GlennO

Bob, you nailed it. The supervisors are part of the problem, but the whole city is like that. You will never get them to allow it, and the only recourse is to have an appeals court override the San Francisco court and get them to comply with the ADA guidelines.

Pelosi used to be a supervisor in SF, and between her and the others on the board, I saw them pass some really strange laws, and subsequently left town!

The academy of science needs to remember that when wheelchair access was made mandatory, many companies had to make changes that cost them money, and some didn't like it for other reasons too. Now though, they'll jump at anything they can.

You do realize that what you should do is to go there and get yourself arrested. It might be helpful to have an ADA attorney handy and set the whole thing up.

Glenn

Yes, Pelosi used to be a supe. And there is certainly a consistent pattern of strange politics, and strange politicians, and strange voter dynamics that keeps electing them. My impression is that the supes as a body are stranger than the voters. And by "strange", I mean strange, not code for anything.

Their urgent anti-Segway mission -- something they've done TWICE (they repeated it when the state overrode their original) -- is a case in point, but hardly an isolated occurrence. Responding urgently to imagined dangers of not-yet-released devices with no information, no evidence of concern, and no real constituency for the opposition speaks to a political process more focused on stirring up trouble to look "proactive', than anything resembling actual governance.

But this isn't in the hands of the Supes. It's in the hands of the staff. So it's not as hopelessly tied to weird personal conflicts, hopes, and aggrandizement.

And it's not just the city staff, it's the museum staff.

I don't think getting myself arrested would serve any purpose -- it would actually hurt the effort, I think. Getting myself kicked out again, or another letter indicating they would do so, might be helpful. And an ADA attorney -- anybody know a good one?

I don't wish to put a seat on my Segway until I have no choice. After all, not sitting is why I have a Segway rather than a wheelchair or scooter. (Well, I do have a wheelchair, but I haven't used it since I got my Segway).

Although on days like today, I wonder whether a seat is all that far off...

[Nelda]

An interesting side note-
Probably 4 years ago, my husband and I both used our segways to go through the De Young Museum in Golden Gate Park.
We were welcomed there by all the staff. I mean not only the staff at the entrance, but by everyone that worked there. It was such a great exhibition (arts and crafts furniture, etc.), we went through the entire museum twice!
It was extremely crowded and not one problem or negative comment. Not one.
I sought out the director of the museum and we had a nice conversation.
I mentioned how wonderful it was to finally be able to visit and that without the segway, I would not have been able.
We have glided the entire length of Golden Gate Park and it was a great experience.

Nelda