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| Special Needs, Mobility and Disabled Use Information and discussion for those with special needs interested in the Segway. |
05-01-2007, 01:11 PM
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#21 |
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Member
  
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Waianae, Hi, .
Posts: 305
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I think that we drifted so far away from the main topic that we lost sight of the obvious - - These corporate idiots have decided that disabled people cannot stand up!
Isn't there an ADA attorney that we can all send $5 or $10 to? Glenn |
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05-01-2007, 02:52 PM
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#22 |
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Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach, FL/ Mantoloking NJ
Posts: 2,081
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Postponed
Today's hearing in the Las Cruces New Mexico has been postponed to a future date. The TRO will stay if effect until adjudicated.
http://www.aclu-nm.org/News_Events/news_4_12_07.html I am going to watch this to see what comes next. Be Big, Alan
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05-01-2007, 07:05 PM
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#23 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lee's Summit, MO, USA
Posts: 1,217
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Quote:
When I have time, I'll post the info in the proper thread about the Las Cruces Suit: http://forums.segwaychat.com/showthread.php?t=15138 Last edited by dale@thecoys.net; 05-01-2007 at 07:06 PM.. Reason: Added link to appropriate thread |
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05-02-2007, 04:32 AM
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#24 |
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Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: East Rutherford, New Jersey, USA.
Posts: 690
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Paramus Park Mall
Karl I thought your letter was appropriate and hopefully with your permission I have copied and pasted it to an e-mail to Minnie Adams at the Mall. Soon as I get an answer and I;m sure there will be one ..I'll post it here again..And if she agrees to meet with me I would appreciate any one local to come along to show the segway is safe....
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-- live with love and care, upon the level and by the square And most of all Better to ask forgiveness later than to ask permission and be refused |
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05-02-2007, 08:19 AM
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#25 |
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Glides a lot, talks more...
  
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Pelham, NH, USA.
Posts: 10,356
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My letter was more a template than finished product, but if it was of value, that is great!
One thing I would do prior to meeting with her, would be to go to the SEGWAY website and have some of those studies printed and in your hands at the meeting... I have found it is one thing to have a study to mention, it is quite another thing to have it with you in your hand... Good luck.
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Karl Ian Sagal To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. "Well done is better than well said." (Ben Franklin) Bene factum melior bene dictum Proud past President of SEG America and member of the First Premier Segway Enthusiasts Group and subsequent ones as well. |
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05-02-2007, 10:01 AM
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#26 |
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: East Rutherford, New Jersey, USA.
Posts: 690
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Answer to E-Mail
This is the answer I received after sending a copy of Karls suggested letter......
Mr. Collins, I’m sorry you are not happy with our decision. Though we are happy to accommodate you with a wheel chair conveniently available at our Customer Service booth, you indicated that was not appropriate for your needs at this time. I would enjoy meeting with you, but the decision not to allow segways at the mall is made on a corporate level. I have shared your email with our counsel and he has asked that you have your attorney contact him. His contact information is: Robert H. Kalinsky Assistant General Counsel General Growth Properties Inc. 110 North Wacker Drive Chicago, Illinois 60606 312-960-5736 Robert.kalinsky@ggp.com Sincerely, Minnie Adams General Manager Paramus Park Shopping Center Paramus, NJ 07652 From: WColl8374@aol.com [mailto:WColl8374@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 4:25 AM
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-- live with love and care, upon the level and by the square And most of all Better to ask forgiveness later than to ask permission and be refused |
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05-02-2007, 02:04 PM
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#27 |
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Glides a lot, talks more...
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Pelham, NH, USA.
Posts: 10,356
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Bill,
My guess is that they have nothing to offer in support of their position. They have likely decided that you will not go thru the expense of paying for a lawyer just to speak to their counsel. In most cases, they are right. By putting this back in the hands of telling you to have an attorney contact their attorney, I believe they feel they have effectively dismissed this issue... The ball is clearly now back where it started. It will take letters to their attorney, where you ask for his documentation, and he does not respond, or asks you to have your attorney ask or any number of other possibilities... I guess a lot of this depends on just how much you want to shop there... This brings up the old addage, "It is better to ask for forgiveness than permission". Another factor would be, just how much trouble are you willing to get into, just to prove a point... I have often pushed an issue where I felt I was right, even to the level of annoying some 'would be' napoleon. You need to be ready to pay the consequenses if you do that... Once, in the year 3 BS (Before Segway), I was on a small neighborhood road with my electric Golf Cart. I had one of the neighborhood mothers with me, and in the rumble seat behind us, we had two toddlers and an infant. We were returning from a 2 mile Dunkin Donuts run, when I got pulled over by a local cop. He actually pulled right up behind me, (I was doing about 8 mph) and ran his siren for about 2 or 3 seconds... The kids just about exploded! They were screaming, having been so rudely and loudly startled. I am almost glad that I had another adult there with me, or I may have lost it... He spoke loud and big, about arresting me, and towing the cart in... If it were not for the crying babies, and the embarrassed neighbor, I would have forced him to. I would have liked to see the reaction he would have gotten from his contemporaries if I arrived for booking in cuffs, and my golf cart, with the big blue umbrella for shade, came in on the flatbed... Instead, his plan worked. He upset enough of my party, that I just went home, and that was the last time that cart made that run... I am just enought of an a$$ to go to that mall, and make them enforce their policy, or at least enough of one to consider it... But, my advice is easy, as I am not you... I am not a big fan of Malls, and I do not regularly shop at them, nor do I shop where I am not treated as I like to be treated... I wish you luck in resolving this to your contentment. I am sorry that your efforts have not been met with better results so far...
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Karl Ian Sagal To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. "Well done is better than well said." (Ben Franklin) Bene factum melior bene dictum Proud past President of SEG America and member of the First Premier Segway Enthusiasts Group and subsequent ones as well. Last edited by KSagal; 05-02-2007 at 02:11 PM.. |
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05-02-2007, 02:34 PM
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#28 |
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Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 91
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I just had a thought as I was reading about being a fan of malls. Well think of out some protests have worked in the past. They boycott the advertisers or sponsors!
Have you given thought of contacting the tenants of the malls and letting them know that you will not be shopping at their stores as the mall will not allow you in? Then let them pressure GGP to allow customers access to their stores. You have to hit them where it counts, their WALLETS!
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Ryan D. Steele Segway Enthusiast Chicago, IL Personal sites: To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. |
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05-02-2007, 03:05 PM
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#29 | |
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Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA.
Posts: 2,608
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Quote:
Has anyone thought to contact the ACLU in NM to see if their attorney can refer you to ACLU lawyers local to William Collins? In NJ, I'd think the ACLU would have a list of lawyers willing to do "open and shut" pro bono (sp?) cases that get lots of press. Just look at how much press the NM case is getting! |
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05-02-2007, 03:29 PM
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#30 |
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Dubai, United Arab Emirates.
Posts: 2,533
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These types of cases aren't open and shut, much as we would like to believe they are. If these were so easy there would be a line of lawyers waiting to take up this action.
There are lots of "hidden" issues here, some of which could come to play very quickly. One of the first is a tenet of law that states that the right of one (or some) can be superseded by the safety of many. Therefore, if a court of law deems that there is an inherent risk to others because of Segway usage they can ban the Segway use, even if it is for mobility use. Of course, at this point they then must address the need for alternative mobility aids but that is an issue subsequent to Segway usage. I have spent countless hours (easily more than 50) over the past five or six months studying this issue and the associated laws and can easily say that the laws, while they try, are far from completely clear and there is wiggle room to be found (for those that don't want to allow Segways, that is). The ACLU case in NM is potentially a good bellwether, especially if they (the ACLU) decides that this issue is one they want to take nationwide. Individual revolts also help garner attention BUT can also backfire if one is not careful. I would recommend caution rather than forcefulness. Slow and steady rather than hard and fast would be a much better approach. Wait for the NM decision and then see what happens (is it in favor of the glider? does it get appealed? does it lead to other supporting decisions?). Steven |
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