Seg on a plane

[QuadSquad]

I'll be on the phone first thing Monday morning with Segway and also DOT to confirm this.

Because it is such HUGE News, I'm shocked that I'm learning of it on Segwaychat rather through other channels which deal with these issues every day.

But, at the moment I'll take it at face value it will certainly improve my life and preclude me from having to change batteries on Monday to make the trip to Washington, DC.

Clearly under the law if it can be shipped on a passenger carrying aircraft then it absolutely can be transported as an assistive device for a person with disabilities on a passenger carrying aircraft.

it wouldn't be good news for our constituency it would be GREAT NEWS!

[Desert_Seg]

We only stumbled upon this about three weeks ago when I noticed that one of our shipments was coming in on the same flight number as I've taken before. I checked the AWB and then checked online and realized that all shipments were using Pax flight numbers.

A more detailed study of the AWBs and related paperwork and we noted that this had been happening for a while and that there were clear indications of the Segways being ok for Pax Air.

Not sure why the change, nor why we didn't find officially, but who am I to complain if we can now fly with our i2s (not that I necessarily would but for you a whole different ball game!).

Steven

[Murray Fisher]

Originally Posted by Desert_Seg

We only stumbled upon this about three weeks ago when I noticed that one of our shipments was coming in on the same flight number as I've taken before. I checked the AWB and then checked online and realized that all shipments were using Pax flight numbers.

A more detailed study of the AWBs and related paperwork and we noted that this had been happening for a while and that there were clear indications of the Segways being ok for Pax Air.

Not sure why the change, nor why we didn't find officially, but who am I to complain if we can now fly with our i2s (not that I necessarily would but for you a whole different ball game!).

Steven

Steve, My two cents worth

Fact: Good....Phosphate Cathodes
Bad......Lithium Cobalt Oxide Cathodes

Batteries now provided in i2 are Phosphate Cathodes

Sealing needs: Contacts on battery must be sealed to
prevent accidental shorting.

This is done by bolting batteries to Segway
OR putting batteries in HazMat container

No reasons left NOT to allow i2s by air in any type of service

OKay, what am I leaving out except that most airlines have not caught up yet?

As most on SegChat know, I have been desparately trying to find a way to take my Seg with me to Hawaii each year. I am getting closer, as was told I could send them with no problems from Seattle to Honolulu. The hitch this year was the commuter line which serves MY city, Walla Walla to Seattle. Horizon air is a subsididary of Alaska Air and they carefully checked for me again this year and so far will not take Segways on their passengr flights.

So this year I hobbled around Waikiki, took taxi's and tour buses, wheel chairs etc....almost cried when I saw Segway Tours come gliding by our Hotel daily! None for rent on a 24/7 basis though.

Maybe next year. I am 75!

Murray

[culs]

It sure would be big news and make up travel a lot easier. I just found this info at American Airlines..page down to Segway.
http://www.aa.com/content/agency/Tra...elchairs.jhtml

Maybe the news will float out elsewhere next week.

I may need to travel in April... leaving my good batteries on would sure help!

[Desert_Seg]

It seems that Li-Ions have been ok and nobody told us. Dang, I feel like a mushroom!

Steven

[QuadSquad]

Originally Posted by culs

It sure would be big news and make up travel a lot easier. I just found this info at American Airlines..page down to Segway.
http://www.aa.com/content/agency/Tra...elchairs.jhtml

Maybe the news will float out elsewhere next week.

I may need to travel in April... leaving my good batteries on would sure help!

The information posted on the American Airlines site was done so over a year ago and was incorrect at the time of posting but like most large organizations they never got around to changing it. Senior management in the corporate offices of American Airlines knew that the information when posted was not correct, and since I almost always fly American Airlines I would advise you that they have it correct in their computers and always ask me whether my Segway has lithium-ion batteries.

I'm not trying to be a pessimist here, however, if there has been a change in the regulations it has been done very recently in the Segway Corp. was not aware of it as recent as three weeks ago.

It wouldn't be the first time something was being shipped incorrectly and unknowingly in violation of federal regulations and United Nations treaties.
I hope I'm wrong but...............................

[Desert_Seg]

Originally Posted by QuadSquad

... It wouldn't be the first time something was being shipped incorrectly and unknowingly in violation of federal regulations and United Nations treaties.
I hope I'm wrong but...............................

Just to be clear. The regulations governing shipment of Li-Ion batteries in the use are regulated in accordance with Federal Law (Part 49 of the CFR) which are based on the UN recommendations. In this instance, the UN makes no law, only recommendations although they have provided a set of recommended tests to be performed prior to allowing specific types of batteries aboard aircraft.

Flying with Li-Ions are regulated by ICAO and IATA, who, while also following much of the testing recommended by the UN, can set their own regulations.

Steven

[RAG1247]

the whole situation with shipping lions, attached or un-attached is confusing and scary. when I was looking at shipping gen 1 lions back to segway for upgrading nobody at various shippers including ups really had any understanding of the exact law. In fact UPS said "oh they are just like laptop batteries, no hazmat certification required".

I have no doubt that the lithiums both loose and attached have been shipped by many, possibly in violation of the requirements.

Having said that there seems no doubt that DesertSeg is receiving units from segway or its shippers on passenger aircraft.

Segway needs to step in and clarify what can and can't be done. Segway manuals and info on the web still state that loose or attached, lithiums cannot be shipped on passenger aircraft.

from what I read, the risk from the valence batteries is somewhat less, but all we need is some type of accident, etc., which could result in no segways (either with NiMH or lithiums) ever being allowed on aircraft.

hopefully segway will step up with some clarification.

[Desert_Seg]

Some additional info:

Docket No. 04-19886 (HM-224E): Hazardous Materials: Prohibition on the Transportation of Primary Lithium Batteries and Cells Aboard Passenger Aircraft; Final rule; correction; Published 9/28/2006; Effective Date 10/1/2006; 71 FR 56894.

SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION:

I. Background

On December 15, 2004, the Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety
Administration (PHMSA, we) published an interim final rule under Docket
HM-224E (69 FR 75208). That final rule imposed a limited prohibition on
offering for transportation and transportation of primary lithium
batteries and cells as cargo aboard passenger-carrying aircraft and
equipment containing or packed with large lithium batteries.
This document corrects an error in the December 15, 2004 final
rule. In Special Provision A101 we imposed a gross weight limitation of
5 kilograms for primary lithium batteries packed with equipment that
were excepted from the prohibition for transportation aboard passenger-
carrying aircraft. We intended for this limit to be based on net
weight. A gross weight limitation applies to the total weight of the
packaging plus its contents (i.e., the weight of the equipment, battery
and the packaging). A net weight limitation applies only to the weight
of the lithium batteries packed with the equipment.
In this final rule, we are correcting Special Provision A101 to
specify that the net weight of a package containing a lithium battery
or cell that is packed with equipment may be transported on board
passenger carrying aircraft provided the net weight of the lithium
batteries in the package does not exceed 5 kg and the other conditions
set forth in the special provision are met. This limit does not affect
the amount of lithium authorized in a battery or a cell. Those limits
(i.e., 1 and 2 grams for liquid and solid untested batteries,
respectively, and 25 grams for tested batteries) are specified in Sec.
173.185(b) and (c). This amendment does not affect the aircraft
quantity limits for those lithium batteries that are transported as
Class 9.In simple terms, this allows Li-Ion batteries of 5Kg or less per pack (and not loose) on board Pax Air.

Steven

[culs]

Originally Posted by QuadSquad

The information posted on the American Airlines site was done so over a year ago and was incorrect at the time of posting but like most large organizations they never got around to changing it. Senior management in the corporate offices of American Airlines knew that the information when posted was not correct, and since I almost always fly American Airlines I would advise you that they have it correct in their computers and always ask me whether my Segway has lithium-ion batteries.

I'm not trying to be a pessimist here, however, if there has been a change in the regulations it has been done very recently in the Segway Corp. was not aware of it as recent as three weeks ago.

It wouldn't be the first time something was being shipped incorrectly and unknowingly in violation of federal regulations and United Nations treaties.
I hope I'm wrong but...............................

Sorry to have posted dated info...but here's the detail at American Airline's web site... at least it appears to be after the new product name change, as follows:



"Segway® Human Transporter Device
Batteries on the Segway® Human Transporter are lithium, similar to a laptop battery, and do not require removal or any disconnection of the power source. If this device is used as a mobility device, it may be stowed in the cabin on a first-come basis. Customers may ride their Segway to the aircraft door and guide it into the closet. It can climb stairs."