Civil Disobedience

[driley]

I'm not thin skinned. It is an important subject though and if someone is going to voice there opinion, I am going to voice mine. It is an important issue.

I do not doubt that Tim is a good guy and does not intend to be discriminatory, though the views he expressed were in my opinion.

Devin

[Tarkus]

Originally Posted by driley

I'm not thin skinned. It is an important subject though and if someone is going to voice there opinion, I am going to voice mine. It is an important issue.

I do not doubt that Tim is a good guy and does not intend to be discriminatory, though the views he expressed were in my opinion.

Devin

Devin,

I apologize if I insinuated you as thin skinned, I meant it as an all encompassing statement. My bad.

Regards,
Alan

[driley]

Originally Posted by Tarkus

Devin,

I apologize if I insinuated you as thin skinned, I meant it as an all encompassing statement. My bad.

Regards,
Alan

No problem. Should we all move on to religion and politics now?

Devin

[Murray Fisher]

I actually entered the Mall through Nordstrom's after wandering around there a while I went out the exit into the main part of the Mall. I went to the Food area and had something to eat......then took off and cruised a long ways down the main Mall and chatted with a lot of the vendors and customers....Then I went back to Nordstroms and a Security man in a pretty white uniform followed me inside Nordstroms and informed me I was not allowed in the main mall with my Segway.....but he said I could stay in Nordstroms as long as I wanted. I guess I was NOT dangerous with my High Speeds in Nordstroms, but it was a different story in the rest of the Mall. As I left the Mall, the Vendors and others I had talked to earlier asked how I made out and they were astonished that an 85 year old man gliding along silently alongside his wife at around 1 MPH was being ejected for being dangerous!!!

[Tarkus]

Originally Posted by driley

No problem. Should we all move on to religion and politics now?

Devin

Now thats funny stuff !!!!!

[Timezkware Tim]

Hi, me again,

Alan and all, I certainly wasn't trying to be insensetive. If you really read my posts, you'd realize that I support Alan, Segway, and the disabled community of which I am both a part of. I only disagreed with Alan's approach, based on what the perception of the general public is. The discussions here at Segway Chat are a healthy way to air out these things, as this is a place for all of us to learn something.

Look at it this way: if my opinion was that Alan was being rash, I'm a member of the general public and that's my perception. Get it?

Alan, if you've tried everything in terms of communicating with Simon in writing, then I'm with you. I've read most of your posts. You've never mentioned writing Simon as far as I can remember, so it seemed that you were being rash. If I'm wrong, I have no problem admitting it. I'm only human. After all, we're not under oath here, this is only a message board. I just don't want to see someone on a Segway getting handcuffed on TV unless they really have to.

We're all on the same side here. Alan, good luck fighting the Segway critics. Let's just make sure we don't tarnish our reputation in the process. As I said, for many people, perception is reality.

Tim

[Desert_Seg]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and though we may not agree we have to respect their right to that opinion. We all have reasons to support, or not, disabled rights but in the end those that have "skin in the game" are the most affected and it is their rights that are being infringed on (or not, depending on your view).

Simon Properties, and the management of any other public access venue, has to provide access, regardless (within reason, no jet-fueled powered wheelchairs, please), and they aren't.

They should and they aren't. People should be aware of this and they should be forced to change.

Now, on the lighter side, we do have to be nicer to Tim. After all, if you look at his sig you realize that he has much bigger problems to deal with. Much much bigger. A Mets fan....sigh....

Steven

[Tarkus]

Tim,

It's all good.

You have to remember that just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not getting done. Re: letters etc. I write more letters, make more phone calls then you could ever imagine. I post little here in comparison to other sites.

I troll websites looking for others in the same situation, and I find them every time.

Now, back to the being arrested part.

Do you really think that the local Law enforcement would slam the paraplegic to the car and throw the cuffs on me like the good old days ?

Or would the local Simon talking head allow it?
Of course not. What would happen is that the Police would cite me for the infraction, if indeed they could find one on the books, and I would take a ride downtown, media in tow.

That would show the absurdity of it all, again. I would not be close to being the first to do this.

It has been done by many a person before me. On Segways.

It's what this country is all about.

The First Amendment.

We do not need to agree, just agree to disagree.

All the best,
Alan

[polo_pro]

Originally Posted by Timezkware Tim

Alan, if you've tried everything in terms of communicating with Simon in writing, then I'm with you. I've read most of your posts. You've never mentioned writing Simon as far as I can remember, so it seemed that you were being rash. If I'm wrong, I have no problem admitting it. I'm only human. After all, we're not under oath here, this is only a message board. I just don't want to see someone on a Segway getting handcuffed on TV unless they really have to.

I have no doubt that Alan has tried every other means possible to resolve this matter (including numerous letters to all sorts of people within the Simon organization). Tim does make a good point that if any type of civil dis-obediance should be accompanied with both a presentation (say copies of everything blown up and put on large sheets of cardboard) and press package detailing all these communications.

The goal would be to allow the various reporters and general public to see what great lengths Alan and others have already gone through before it got to the point of civil disobedience. Also it'd hopefully be fairly apparent how Simon is violating the law (and even seeming hypocritical). But I'm sure all this has already been discussed at length by the people who'd be involved.

ps - I should mention that I'm not disabled. So those folks who feel I shouldn't have a voice in this topic are quite welcome to use that fact as a way to tell me to 'sit down and shut up'.

[GlennO]

If you are going to do this, and I think that it is a pretty good idea, I'd have someone nearby that can explain it all, in case you do get carted off before you can explain it all.

Also, if you really want to get your point across, I'd make up flyers and drop off one in every store, telling them that it is too painful for you to shop there without a mobility device, and you'll be going to another mall in the future.

After all, those cops aren't gods, and if the word gets out that their security personel don't like disabled persons shopping there, the shop owners are going to beat them down!

Glenn