Civil Disobedience

Tarkus · 06-21-2006, 11:27 PM

After some careful thought I have decided that "Black Friday" will be my day to be arrested for Segway use at a Simon Mall.

My friends at the local TV outlets have promised to let me know where they will be set up for their annual broadcast of the shopping frenzy, and that's where I'll hold up a few grand in cash and then let the Simon folks have me arrested live and in color !

Hey Sailor, want to join me in jail ? I'll drive to the mall ! And throw bail !

I can see it now Santa, happy kiddies and a para being dragged off for wanting to drop $$$ in a place that feels they are above the law.

Can't wait for November.

Alan

Tarkus · 06-22-2006, 07:27 PM

Anyone like to join in ? Pick a town and Mall and I'll see if I can find out the TV info.

I'll even throw the bail !

Suzined · 11-14-2006, 02:41 AM

Rather than enter a Mall through the main entrance, have you tried going into the mall through a big store entrance (Nordstrom, Sears, Macy's, etc)? It might be worth contacting Nordstrom Public Relations regarding the use of handicapped equipment before attempting to break new ground. That way, a response to an officious security guard (with all of three days training) might be, "Well, Nordstrom Vice President Elmira Pathusnik said it was okay by her."

(No, that isn't a real name.)

Asking such a question might be along the lines of: "I've heard some mall have attempted to ban mobility equipment for the disabled, such as walkers, electric wheelchairs, and other devises used by the handicapped to permit them the freedom to shop in stores such as yours. Do your stores discriminate against Americans with Disabilities in such a manner?"

The problem sometimes gets locked in at the lowest level because "supervisors" want to back up their people. Once you get a security guard and a supervisor committed to excluding a Segway, it becomes very difficult to change a "long standing procedure" they just made up. Might be worth asking to see any "long standing" procedure in writing.

I had a long discussion with our police chief and the Mayor of Long Beach, Washington. They were interested in Segways and saw no reason to exclude Segs from sidewalks, boardwalks, or other public facilities.

From the corner of Columbia and Pacific,
Ed Leonard
Ilwaco, Washington

Timezkware Tim · 11-14-2006, 03:17 AM

My wife told me once that there's an old German saying that goes something like, "When two people are having an arguement, the first one that shouts, loses". You may think that you're making a statement to help a cause, but if the common perception is that you are a troublemaker, then you are a troublemaker. Then all Seggers are troublemakers. Disabled or not, you represent all of us everytime you're on your rig in public.

When somone commits civil disobedience over young people dying in a war, that's one thing. You're planning to inconvenience several security people and Police, and disrupt the working and shopping day for others getting arrested over a Segway. You and other disabled people may benefit from Segways, but last time I checked they're not wheelchairs.

The mall is a private business. If you buy a ticket to the pokey, you will only hurt the cause to have Segways accepted in society, IMO. They have the right to say no. It's their private place of business.

As I said, perception is reality, and once you do this, it can't be undone. Think about it. There are more efficient ways to further a cause.

If Simon Co. is breaking the law and discriminating somehow, maybe I'm totally misinformed as far as the law goes where you are. I still think getting yourself arrested should be reserved for saving the lives of people or even animals. A Segway in a store? You won't get much sympathy. People will say, "Get a wheelchair if you're disabled".

JMHO. Hope you make the right decision. Good luck.

Tim

sombody · 11-14-2006, 04:48 AM

I wonder if Rosa Parks was familiar with that German saying ?

rick

Timezkware Tim · 11-14-2006, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sombody

I wonder if Rosa Parks was familiar with that German saying ?

rick

Excuse me, Rick, but Rosa Parks was arrested demonstrating against racial discrimiantion against African-Americans on where they can sit on a public bus. This was only 90 years after her race were slaves in this country. Alan wants to get arrested because they won't let him ride his Segway, a non-disabled pedestrian assistance device, inside a private business. Nothing personal, but seriously, your analogy is ridiculous.

Tim

Desert_Seg · 11-14-2006, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timezkware Tim

Excuse me, Rick, but Rosa Parks was arrested demonstrating against racial discrimiantion against African-Americans on where they can sit on a public bus. This was only 90 years after her race were slaves in this country. Alan wants to get arrested because they won't let him ride his Segway, a non-disabled pedestrian assistance device, inside a private business. Nothing personal, but seriously, your analogy is ridiculous.

Tim

Tim,

Alan does qualify under the Americans with Disabilities Act and, therefore, can use ANY form of assistance to "get around". Be it a Segway, a roller skate, or a skate board, he cannot be discriminated against.

There is no such thing as an "approved" list of devices that are for the disabled....and a Segway is a great assistive device (the AD in EPAMD!).

Furthermore, Simon Malls may be privately owned but they are for public access and, therefore, MUST comply with ADA regulations. Using your comparison, the Sears Tower, Madison Square Garden, or even Dodger Stadium (all private) don't have to meet ADA regulations.

The analogy is a good one....

Steven

sombody · 11-14-2006, 09:04 AM

As part of the Segway community I would not generally agree nor encourage this method of protest-

BUT I ultimately would have to support Alan in whatever decision he chooses to make-

rick

Sven · 11-14-2006, 10:16 AM

As one who is disabled and part of the Segway community I say "Go Alan!" Discrimination does not last long in the glare of lights and cameras.

Sven

cmonkey · 11-14-2006, 11:06 AM

I was curious about segs and stores.... so When I first got my Seg, I called up the customer service number on Nordstrom's web page and asked "Are Segways permitted in their stores?". The gal that answered had no clue and asked a supervisor. They answered 'Yes' becasue is was an EMAPD.
This surprised me because I made no other statements about the segway or how I use it.

Going in through a Nordstroms might be one access route.

06-21-2006, 11:27 PM	#1
Tarkus Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Ponte Vedra Beach, FL/ Mantoloking NJ Posts: 2,081	Civil Disobedience After some careful thought I have decided that "Black Friday" will be my day to be arrested for Segway use at a Simon Mall. My friends at the local TV outlets have promised to let me know where they will be set up for their annual broadcast of the shopping frenzy, and that's where I'll hold up a few grand in cash and then let the Simon folks have me arrested live and in color ! Hey Sailor, want to join me in jail ? I'll drive to the mall ! And throw bail ! I can see it now Santa, happy kiddies and a para being dragged off for wanting to drop $$$ in a place that feels they are above the law. Can't wait for November. Alan __________________ *************************************** Messages from Alan Maccini and are produced utilizing voice recognition software. We apologize for any errors . To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

06-22-2006, 07:27 PM	#2
Tarkus Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Ponte Vedra Beach, FL/ Mantoloking NJ Posts: 2,081	Anyone like to join in ? Pick a town and Mall and I'll see if I can find out the TV info. I'll even throw the bail ! __________________ *************************************** Messages from Alan Maccini and are produced utilizing voice recognition software. We apologize for any errors . To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

11-14-2006, 02:41 AM	#3
Suzined Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: At the corner of Columbia and Pacific Posts: 448	Shopping Mall Bans Rather than enter a Mall through the main entrance, have you tried going into the mall through a big store entrance (Nordstrom, Sears, Macy's, etc)? It might be worth contacting Nordstrom Public Relations regarding the use of handicapped equipment before attempting to break new ground. That way, a response to an officious security guard (with all of three days training) might be, "Well, Nordstrom Vice President Elmira Pathusnik said it was okay by her." (No, that isn't a real name.) Asking such a question might be along the lines of: "I've heard some mall have attempted to ban mobility equipment for the disabled, such as walkers, electric wheelchairs, and other devises used by the handicapped to permit them the freedom to shop in stores such as yours. Do your stores discriminate against Americans with Disabilities in such a manner?" The problem sometimes gets locked in at the lowest level because "supervisors" want to back up their people. Once you get a security guard and a supervisor committed to excluding a Segway, it becomes very difficult to change a "long standing procedure" they just made up. Might be worth asking to see any "long standing" procedure in writing. I had a long discussion with our police chief and the Mayor of Long Beach, Washington. They were interested in Segways and saw no reason to exclude Segs from sidewalks, boardwalks, or other public facilities. From the corner of Columbia and Pacific, Ed Leonard Ilwaco, Washington

11-14-2006, 03:17 AM	#4
Timezkware Tim Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 941	Just my 2 cents, Alan... My wife told me once that there's an old German saying that goes something like, "When two people are having an arguement, the first one that shouts, loses". You may think that you're making a statement to help a cause, but if the common perception is that you are a troublemaker, then you are a troublemaker. Then all Seggers are troublemakers. Disabled or not, you represent all of us everytime you're on your rig in public. When somone commits civil disobedience over young people dying in a war, that's one thing. You're planning to inconvenience several security people and Police, and disrupt the working and shopping day for others getting arrested over a Segway. You and other disabled people may benefit from Segways, but last time I checked they're not wheelchairs. The mall is a private business. If you buy a ticket to the pokey, you will only hurt the cause to have Segways accepted in society, IMO. They have the right to say no. It's their private place of business. As I said, perception is reality, and once you do this, it can't be undone. Think about it. There are more efficient ways to further a cause. If Simon Co. is breaking the law and discriminating somehow, maybe I'm totally misinformed as far as the law goes where you are. I still think getting yourself arrested should be reserved for saving the lives of people or even animals. A Segway in a store? You won't get much sympathy. People will say, "Get a wheelchair if you're disabled". JMHO. Hope you make the right decision. Good luck. Tim Last edited by Timezkware Tim; 11-14-2006 at 03:22 AM..

11-14-2006, 09:04 AM	#8
sombody Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Huntington Beach, Calif, USA. Posts: 202	Protest As part of the Segway community I would not generally agree nor encourage this method of protest- BUT I ultimately would have to support Alan in whatever decision he chooses to make- rick

11-14-2006, 04:48 AM	#5
sombody Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Huntington Beach, Calif, USA. Posts: 202	I wonder if Rosa Parks was familiar with that German saying ? rick

11-14-2006, 10:16 AM	#9
Sven Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 61	As one who is disabled and part of the Segway community I say "Go Alan!" Discrimination does not last long in the glare of lights and cameras. Sven

11-14-2006, 11:06 AM	#10
cmonkey Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Orange, CA, USA. Posts: 1,064	about going in via a big store... I was curious about segs and stores.... so When I first got my Seg, I called up the customer service number on Nordstrom's web page and asked "Are Segways permitted in their stores?". The gal that answered had no clue and asked a supervisor. They answered 'Yes' becasue is was an EMAPD. This surprised me because I made no other statements about the segway or how I use it. Going in through a Nordstroms might be one access route. __________________ Charriot of Fur - Onward!

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