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Old 12-12-2006, 08:25 PM   #1
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Default Fuel Cell???

Today while gliding, this guy in a car starting waiving and pulled me over. After asking a bunch of questions about the i2, he said he'd talked before with "Dean" about his fuel cell. Said "Dean" turned him down on the phone. Said his fuel cell of the size that would fit in the i2's bag would produce 225 HP. Said it could be modified to run on anything from hydrogen to gas to water. Wanted to know if I'd demo the unit to him. At this point, I stayed on top of it and talked to him in his car. Said he had a partner and were looking for another to do a "Phase 1" test (oh and other partner would have to come up with about 8 million). He kept talking, bragging, wanting me to demo "Max" and I just kept standing on it. I finally asked him when he was going to talk with Detroit. Then the conspiricy factor came out that if he did, he'd wind up dead. Now this guy just didn't look the part in his worn out clothes, and driving a car with a door decal that said "GA Power Contracter" ( he was monitering power poles he said). I left him waiting on the side of the road for me to come back with 8 million .

If anyone is working on a fuel cell, it would be the architect of our beloved machine, not this dude I met today.

Just thought it was a funny story.
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Old 12-12-2006, 08:33 PM   #2
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Default From a few months ago - check it out

http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/15782869.htm

I saw the "SC" and thought they might be closer. Damn...they're on the other side of the country. Pity, cause I could sure use something like this to do "instant recharges" on long distance glides.
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Old 12-12-2006, 09:01 PM   #3
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Considering the fact that I saw a working fuel cell segway in the Florida Segwayfest in 2004, and they had only invested a bit over $100,000, and they surely would have been improving that device over the last 2 1/2 years...

I would be happy to hook you up with a fuel cell i2 for the paultry sum of only $6.5 mil.

Look at that, I just saved you $1.5 million. Aren't you happy with me?!
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Old 12-12-2006, 11:08 PM   #4
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Can you get it to run a HumVee? With an infrastructure for hydrogen? If so, you could name your price if cheaper than oil.
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Considering the fact that I saw a working fuel cell segway in the Florida Segwayfest in 2004, and they had only invested a bit over $100,000, and they surely would have been improving that device over the last 2 1/2 years...

I would be happy to hook you up with a fuel cell i2 for the paultry sum of only $6.5 mil.

Look at that, I just saved you $1.5 million. Aren't you happy with me?!
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Old 12-13-2006, 01:39 AM   #5
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Default Just a FYI for anyone interested in fuel cells

Re: working fuel cell segway at Florida Segfest in 2004,

Here's a link to what I believe was that prototype that appeared at the 2004 Segfest.

http://www.fuelcellsworks.com/Supppage295.html

Power was around 1hp, plenty for a PT. 225 hp would be massive overkill, (unless you needed to power a humvee, and that still might seem underpowered.)

This was designed back in the day before Saphions were out, so doubling the NiMH range was considered quite a feat back then. Not sure if they did much more development afterwards, Saphions answered the call for improved range for many, and with the low numbers of PTs out, there may have not been much demand for further development.

The link plo provided may indicate there's still interest in the idea.
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Old 12-13-2006, 10:21 AM   #6
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I am somewhat familiar with Fuel cells. Creating or obtaining one for $6.5 million is not that tough. I could easily do it.

Even a single fuel cell that could generate a great deal of power is not that hard.

The last requirement that it be cheaper than a gasoline or oil equivalent is the hard part.

It is my considered opinion that there are a very few things in life that can beat the simple cost per result of the amount of easily accessable energy that are available in a simple gallon of gasoline.

Simply put... Take a bucket. Consider all the things you could put in that bucket, and all the variing costs for putting it there. Then consider what you could do to take the energy out of what ever you put in that bucket. Consider the cost of converting the energy from what is in the bucket to how you want to utilize that energy...

Current technology is that one of the cheapest sources of energy to put in the bucket is oil or gasoline. One of the most abundant, and therefore cheapest ways to take advantage of that available energy is to use that oil or gas as fuel to generate heat or explosion to make movement. Currently, cheapest in, cheapest out.

Wind and solar are also cheap as energy sources, but the conversion is expensive, construction is not cheap, and portability is difficult.
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Old 12-13-2006, 01:13 PM   #7
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That said, if our U S Oil companys would get off their butts and build some refineries for "SHALE" oil, we could be energy independent. We have more shale oil in the north west than Saudi Arabia has black oil in the ground. Takes a lot of water to refine it, but in the 70's they (oil companys) said they wanted to wait till oil was $40 per barrel to make it profitable. Well we could certainly do it at today's prices, keep it in this country and have enough for our kids grandkids and probably more with Canada's stash of it as well. They're mining theirs now.
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Originally Posted by KSagal View Post
I am somewhat familiar with Fuel cells. Creating or obtaining one for $6.5 million is not that tough. I could easily do it.

Even a single fuel cell that could generate a great deal of power is not that hard.

The last requirement that it be cheaper than a gasoline or oil equivalent is the hard part.

It is my considered opinion that there are a very few things in life that can beat the simple cost per result of the amount of easily accessable energy that are available in a simple gallon of gasoline.

Simply put... Take a bucket. Consider all the things you could put in that bucket, and all the variing costs for putting it there. Then consider what you could do to take the energy out of what ever you put in that bucket. Consider the cost of converting the energy from what is in the bucket to how you want to utilize that energy...

Current technology is that one of the cheapest sources of energy to put in the bucket is oil or gasoline. One of the most abundant, and therefore cheapest ways to take advantage of that available energy is to use that oil or gas as fuel to generate heat or explosion to make movement. Currently, cheapest in, cheapest out.

Wind and solar are also cheap as energy sources, but the conversion is expensive, construction is not cheap, and portability is difficult.
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Old 12-13-2006, 01:23 PM   #8
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Energy independence? That is silly. We should keep buying from those who state regularly that they think we are the great satan, and by giving them all this money, it pays for the propaganda machine that keeps them recruiting more people to hate us!

I agree that we not only should develope this resourse, but have to for the survival of our culture.

However, I was under the impression that Canada actually has the largest reserves of this type of oil on the globe.

I agree with the premise, but believe that many would call it nationalistic, and not politically correct...
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Old 12-13-2006, 02:14 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cruiter View Post
We have more shale oil in the north west than Saudi Arabia has black oil in the ground. Takes a lot of water to refine it, but in the 70's they (oil companys) said they wanted to wait till oil was $40 per barrel to make it profitable.
I read somewhere that there was an entire town [in Texas maybe] that outfitted itself in the 70's to produce crude from shale but the entire town went bankrupt as a result. I googled it but couldn't find the name of it...well anyway, the town recently started production again and there is one guy heading up the effort, seems to be doing OK with it and buying up land and building refineries as fast as he can. Too bad a couple more like him don't spring up, the one thing that motivates oil companies is direct competition!! Maybe Gates should taken some of that donation money to open some refineries...
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Old 12-13-2006, 02:22 PM   #10
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I think Russia has just sc**wed Shell Oil to the wall in the Russian oil fields, according to the Guardian.

The problem, that I see, with continuing to buy our oil from people who hate us, is that ultimately, they get to call the shots. And I guess that when the PTB in both the oil industry (oh, it's so much cheaper to buy, we get a better return for our investment) and the guvmt (who seems to think that business will trump nationalism - idealistic IMHO) figure it out, some changes will be made. All it will take is a couple more countries nationalizing their oil and demand exceeding supply (which is about to happen big time with China onboard as a large oil user).

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