NY Governer who veto Segways busted with Hookers - Page 3

KSagal · 03-13-2008, 12:55 PM

This is an interesting thread to me...

On the topic of wives standing by their men who defile the oath they took when they got married... If they do it right, they get to run for President.

My view is that no affair, with a pro or not, has ever ended a marriage. It is also my view that a person does not go looking for what they have already found. So... If that man had a loving, fulfilling relationship with his wife, he would not have been a regular at that house of ill repute.

On the consideration of a wife standing there when the huspand demonstrates just how immoral he has been, you have to consider why they were still married in the first place. I already established that he was looking for love outside of the marriage, so there are other reasons that they are together, from her perspective. It may be stability for the kids, it may be money, it may be prestige or power, it may be her ticket to the A list parties, or to future fame (or even running for office)... All are reasons that may still exist after he gets caught with his fingers (or more) in another's cookie jar.

As far as Republicans claiming the moral high ground, as another claimed is the case, I don't know. I think they are all corrupt. One of the reasons is that they work with many who are corrupt. It is difficult to get anything done, if you don't play the game. I have always prided myself at being bad at playing the game, but others guage their success on other terms than mine.

The press makes their bias against republicans, and moreso, conservative traditionalists, very clear. But the Press does not cause or dissuade people from acting on their base emotions, or on being pigs. A person's value system does that. So, while it may seem that one group or another is blasted more by the media that has to do more with the media than with the quality of morals in this group or that. I have often said that if you show me a man who cheats on his wife, I will show you a man who cheats on his taxes. If you show me a man who cheats on his business partners, I will show you a man who cheated in college. I firmly believe that you cannot turn these things on or off. If you word does not mean the same thing all the time, it never means anything.

There used to be a saying in politics that the quickest way to end a political career is to be found with either a dead girl or a live boy... That rule has some merrit, but it is no longer an absolute. Ask Ted Kennedy.

The world is full of people who act like pigs. The world is full of those who think they are above the same rules they try to force on others. We have had posts to that effect in the past... Recall if you will the whole thread about being 'king of do as I say, not as I do'. There are different degrees of how far a person will go before they draw the line. For most people, the line is getting more faded and harder to see, as well as getting pushed back further and further.

Some who show their line for all to see are maligned for it. Worse treated are those who tell others to toe that line... There is a clear and obvious effort in this country that the line of morality/immorality is supposed to be removed from the public discussion, and the public awareness. I don't happen to be part of that movement.

I believe that right is right and wrong is wrong, and I don't care who you are. If you do not tell the truth, you are telling a lie. It is as simple as that. I don't think that any one political party or one religion is more immune from the current trend of 'wrong if caught' and okay if not.

I also believe that while many think of doing the wrong thing, probably most contemplate immoral behaviour from time to time, there are a great deal who do not take the next step and actually do the evil deed. Next are the ones who fail to do the right thing from time to time, yet know it when it happens, try not to do the wrong thing, and try to fix their transgressions. Much later are those who do the wrong thing, know they did it, and when caught try to justify it away, or drag as many down with them as they can... For this last group, it is the 'everybody is doing it' defense.

Well, everybody is not doing it, and even if they were, it would still not be the right thing to do.

jryan · 03-13-2008, 03:42 PM

I think that you all have some great points! I just wanted to add a little in myself. As far as republicans and democrats being immoral, I think this point is null. I think both sides are people and so both sides are just as prone to screw up as the other. My opinion is that there is more corruption on the republican side than the democrats but that is just an opinion! I think that all politicians should be judged more on what they do for the country or state or county or municipality! I think that there are some people who can do some very messed up things on their time, but if it does not conflict with their political duties should not make them a bad politician!

There is much room here for politicians who do bad things but yet make great strides for the country. If those bad things have nothing to do with policy I do not agree it should be mixed in with their poliitical rep. Now there are some immoral things (i.e. granting past business partners "no bid" contracts to make massive money, etc.) that are morally wrong and also hurt the country. These can make up a politicians reputation as a politician. But things that are immoral (i.e. blowjobs, etc.) that do not negatively effect the country should be seperated as a strike against that person as a person not as a politician.

I also do not agree that prostitution in general is wrong. I may be atttacked for this view or get negative rep and so be it! It does not appeal to me, but I think if a woman wants to sell her body she should be able to. And if a man wants to subject himself to the diseases and infections that will most likely come he should have that right as well. I do not think there is a problem with prostitution in general.

I do, however see a problem with what prostitution has become. I think it should be legal for a man to hire a prostitute but not for that same man to beat and humiliate her as they usually do. I do not think "pimping" should be legal either. It is not right for a man to completely control a woman and say she will work and not get paid. Pimps exploit women. So, if it were possible to legalize prostitution but regulate it (so that the women would not be beat or would not be exploited) then I would see no problem whatsoever! I would not partake, but would not oppose either. I also think, with the amount of lonely, horny men out there it would boost the economy!

I have not heard anything to suggest that the governor treated the hooker bad in any way. I have heard she got paid well above what was required and I commend him for that. As far as him and his wife goes, their relationship and how she decides to handle it should be between them. She would have every right to leave him or stay, but whatever she decided should not be subject to the judgement of people like us, people who do not and will not know the full story! That is just my views, take them as you will!

Jeremy Ryan

BillK · 03-13-2008, 05:34 PM

JRyan -
Then you need to be a Democrat in Nevada! Where whoring is legal! And even profitable to the state.

Bill

SEGsby · 03-16-2008, 05:17 PM

I don't understand American Politics...

When someone cheats on their loved ones, and gets some-- everyone freaks out. Media and The Public immediately demand they leave office. Oh, the emo-horror of it all!

When someone destroys the US Economy, Invades Foreign Countries with no Exit Strategy, lies about Climate Change, Operates Secret Prisons in Foreign Countries, Generates Secret Laws against it's own People, Hides and Destroys Incriminating Evidence (Documents, Emails), etc.... Not just suddenly, but over the course of years, over & over...

No one does anything. WTF!?!?!

SEGsby

KSagal · 03-16-2008, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SEGsby

I don't understand American Politics...

When someone cheats on their loved ones, and gets some-- everyone freaks out. Media and The Public immediately demand they leave office. Oh, the emo-horror of it all! But Bill Clinton did not leave office!

When someone destroys the US Economy, Dot com bust started...Invades Foreign Countries with no Exit Strategy,We are still in Bosnia lies about Climate Change, Record Snow this year accross the globe, but I don't recall Bill talking abou it. Operates Secret Prisons in Foreign Countries, They were not started on this watch Generates Secret Laws against it's own People, I cannot comment as I do not understand this one. Hides and Destroys Incriminating Evidence (Documents, Emails), Like the whitewater files, like the documents in the pants of the man Burger among others...etc.... Not just suddenly, but over the course of years, over & over...

No one does anything. WTF!?!?!

SEGsby

You are right. Bill should not have been allowed to get away with it, but so be it...

quade · 03-16-2008, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSagal

You are right. Bill should not have been allowed to get away with it, but so be it...

Geeze Karl, I'm surprised you didn't state the real reason he was brought up on charges.

The sex, in Bill Clinton's case wasn't really the issue. Oh sure, it was the news hook, but the actual issue involved was a small bit of perjury in a failed attempt to save his reputation and family some embarrassment. Sadly, that part backfired.

The sex in all these cases is really trivial, it's all the poo surrounding it that is the thing that's getting folks into trouble.

BTW, did anyone happen to see the Ben Stein commentary today on CBS Sunday Morning? I don't agree with a all of his views, but this one was dead on about how this entire thing blew up.

Low level IRS workers enabled to do wiretaps due to Patriot Act, yada, yada, yada . . . suspicion of money laundering . . . hookers . . . hmmm, who's this #9 fellow? Boom! Over throw of elected official by non-elected officials and replaced with somebody that nobody voted for.

Very interesting.

Available for viewing here.

SEGsby · 03-17-2008, 02:42 AM

Bill who? I think you're supporting the wrong party again, Karl.

SEGsby

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSagal

You are right. Bill should not have been allowed to get away with it, but so be it...

SEGsby · 03-17-2008, 02:48 AM

Sounds just like a Guardian coup d’état.

SEGsby

Quote:

Originally Posted by quade

...Over throw of elected official by non-elected officials and replaced with somebody that nobody voted for.

Very interesting.

Available for viewing here.

Five-Flags · 03-17-2008, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quade

... but the actual issue involved was a small bit of perjury in a failed attempt to save his reputation and family some embarrassment. Sadly, that part backfired.
....

Sorry, I don't buy it! When the President of the United States (and the Commander-in-Chief of our military forces) starts committing perjury, I don't consider it a small bit of anything. Just like there's no such thing as a little bit pregnant, you are either honest or you aren't. I don't trust either of them, and I think that electing Hillary would be a stain on the Office of the President. (I wonder why that phrase comes to mind?)

quade · 03-17-2008, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-Flags

Sorry, I don't buy it!

He lied about something that was not anything to do with his job as the President, wasn't a state secret and wasn't the business of the person asking the question nor anyone else except his wife. The question should not have been asked to begin with.

The entire thing was a tempest in a tea pot and an intentional distraction by some over zealous members of the opposite party.

03-13-2008, 12:55 PM	#21
KSagal Glides a lot, talks more... Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Pelham, NH, USA. Posts: 10,356	This is an interesting thread to me... On the topic of wives standing by their men who defile the oath they took when they got married... If they do it right, they get to run for President. My view is that no affair, with a pro or not, has ever ended a marriage. It is also my view that a person does not go looking for what they have already found. So... If that man had a loving, fulfilling relationship with his wife, he would not have been a regular at that house of ill repute. On the consideration of a wife standing there when the huspand demonstrates just how immoral he has been, you have to consider why they were still married in the first place. I already established that he was looking for love outside of the marriage, so there are other reasons that they are together, from her perspective. It may be stability for the kids, it may be money, it may be prestige or power, it may be her ticket to the A list parties, or to future fame (or even running for office)... All are reasons that may still exist after he gets caught with his fingers (or more) in another's cookie jar. As far as Republicans claiming the moral high ground, as another claimed is the case, I don't know. I think they are all corrupt. One of the reasons is that they work with many who are corrupt. It is difficult to get anything done, if you don't play the game. I have always prided myself at being bad at playing the game, but others guage their success on other terms than mine. The press makes their bias against republicans, and moreso, conservative traditionalists, very clear. But the Press does not cause or dissuade people from acting on their base emotions, or on being pigs. A person's value system does that. So, while it may seem that one group or another is blasted more by the media that has to do more with the media than with the quality of morals in this group or that. I have often said that if you show me a man who cheats on his wife, I will show you a man who cheats on his taxes. If you show me a man who cheats on his business partners, I will show you a man who cheated in college. I firmly believe that you cannot turn these things on or off. If you word does not mean the same thing all the time, it never means anything. There used to be a saying in politics that the quickest way to end a political career is to be found with either a dead girl or a live boy... That rule has some merrit, but it is no longer an absolute. Ask Ted Kennedy. The world is full of people who act like pigs. The world is full of those who think they are above the same rules they try to force on others. We have had posts to that effect in the past... Recall if you will the whole thread about being 'king of do as I say, not as I do'. There are different degrees of how far a person will go before they draw the line. For most people, the line is getting more faded and harder to see, as well as getting pushed back further and further. Some who show their line for all to see are maligned for it. Worse treated are those who tell others to toe that line... There is a clear and obvious effort in this country that the line of morality/immorality is supposed to be removed from the public discussion, and the public awareness. I don't happen to be part of that movement. I believe that right is right and wrong is wrong, and I don't care who you are. If you do not tell the truth, you are telling a lie. It is as simple as that. I don't think that any one political party or one religion is more immune from the current trend of 'wrong if caught' and okay if not. I also believe that while many think of doing the wrong thing, probably most contemplate immoral behaviour from time to time, there are a great deal who do not take the next step and actually do the evil deed. Next are the ones who fail to do the right thing from time to time, yet know it when it happens, try not to do the wrong thing, and try to fix their transgressions. Much later are those who do the wrong thing, know they did it, and when caught try to justify it away, or drag as many down with them as they can... For this last group, it is the 'everybody is doing it' defense. Well, everybody is not doing it, and even if they were, it would still not be the right thing to do. __________________ Karl Ian Sagal To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. "Well done is better than well said." (Ben Franklin) Bene factum melior bene dictum Proud past President of SEG America and member of the First Premier Segway Enthusiasts Group and subsequent ones as well.

03-13-2008, 03:42 PM	#22
jryan Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Where Boris runs free and so do !!! Posts: 782	I think that you all have some great points! I just wanted to add a little in myself. As far as republicans and democrats being immoral, I think this point is null. I think both sides are people and so both sides are just as prone to screw up as the other. My opinion is that there is more corruption on the republican side than the democrats but that is just an opinion! I think that all politicians should be judged more on what they do for the country or state or county or municipality! I think that there are some people who can do some very messed up things on their time, but if it does not conflict with their political duties should not make them a bad politician! There is much room here for politicians who do bad things but yet make great strides for the country. If those bad things have nothing to do with policy I do not agree it should be mixed in with their poliitical rep. Now there are some immoral things (i.e. granting past business partners "no bid" contracts to make massive money, etc.) that are morally wrong and also hurt the country. These can make up a politicians reputation as a politician. But things that are immoral (i.e. blowjobs, etc.) that do not negatively effect the country should be seperated as a strike against that person as a person not as a politician. I also do not agree that prostitution in general is wrong. I may be atttacked for this view or get negative rep and so be it! It does not appeal to me, but I think if a woman wants to sell her body she should be able to. And if a man wants to subject himself to the diseases and infections that will most likely come he should have that right as well. I do not think there is a problem with prostitution in general. I do, however see a problem with what prostitution has become. I think it should be legal for a man to hire a prostitute but not for that same man to beat and humiliate her as they usually do. I do not think "pimping" should be legal either. It is not right for a man to completely control a woman and say she will work and not get paid. Pimps exploit women. So, if it were possible to legalize prostitution but regulate it (so that the women would not be beat or would not be exploited) then I would see no problem whatsoever! I would not partake, but would not oppose either. I also think, with the amount of lonely, horny men out there it would boost the economy! I have not heard anything to suggest that the governor treated the hooker bad in any way. I have heard she got paid well above what was required and I commend him for that. As far as him and his wife goes, their relationship and how she decides to handle it should be between them. She would have every right to leave him or stay, but whatever she decided should not be subject to the judgement of people like us, people who do not and will not know the full story! That is just my views, take them as you will! Jeremy Ryan __________________ I voted before it was cool!! - A wise young lad!

03-16-2008, 05:17 PM	#24
SEGsby Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: California Posts: 2,114	Smokescreens for Much Bigger Problems... I don't understand American Politics... When someone cheats on their loved ones, and gets some-- everyone freaks out. Media and The Public immediately demand they leave office. Oh, the emo-horror of it all! When someone destroys the US Economy, Invades Foreign Countries with no Exit Strategy, lies about Climate Change, Operates Secret Prisons in Foreign Countries, Generates Secret Laws against it's own People, Hides and Destroys Incriminating Evidence (Documents, Emails), etc.... Not just suddenly, but over the course of years, over & over... No one does anything. WTF!?!?! SEGsby

03-13-2008, 05:34 PM	#23
BillK Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Central Texas Posts: 275	JRyan - Then you need to be a Democrat in Nevada! Where whoring is legal! And even profitable to the state. Bill

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