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Old 07-29-2012, 12:53 AM   #21
Bob.Kerns
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Originally Posted by QuadSquad View Post
Perhaps I misunderstood the stated intent. My perception of the statement

"Isn't there a way to work around that insurance thing? How 'bout the doc prescribes a motorized wheelchair or a 3/4-wheel scooter. Then you pick up the device and promptly sell it and put that money toward the cost of a Segway."

was that one would accept the physician prescribed device with the sole intention of selling it to acquire something that the paying entity was not contractually obligated to pay for.

That my friend is a fraudulent activity, there is no way in my mind to justify it.

If you aren't happy that Segways aren't a covered benefit ( i'm certainly not) lobby your state and federal lawmakers, appeal to the insurance carriers, start your own cooperative efforts. A group of us early adopters here on Segwaychat collectively bought a Segway for a young man.

But for heavens sake don't twist ethics in some perverse way to justify illegal behavior no matter how difficult it would be to prove.
I have the advantage, I guess, of knowing Jim already has his Segway and how he got it. (An awesome story in itself). So to me, this discussion has never been about justifying anything, on legal, ethical, or moral grounds.

The problem is, neither Jim or myself can figure out exactly what would constitute fraud -- and I added ethics and morality to the list of questions. A lawyer can at least help you be sure to stay legal -- and, as I pointed out, keep you from avoiding a perfectly legal path out of unfounded fear.

I think I could make at least as good a case that it is fraud for insurance companies to sell insurance, and then refuse to cover a cheaper, better alternative, and insist you use a more expensive, less healthful piece of equipment. (Still not a very good case).

I'd like to see a court decision that would support -- at any point -- selling used medical equipment, for any purpose or timing, as being fraud. Not because I dispute it, but because it would clarify the question.

My interest in the question is real, and not limited to Segways (I paid for my own). I've had my wheelchair for nearly 10 years now. Would it be fraud for me to sell it now? Why, or why not? What about other equipment I have now or acquire in the future?

Selling some of that might help me raise cash for other medical stuff I need. Surely I'm not required to continue to clutter my garage with three walkers for all of eternity? Or maybe I can donate it?

I can make up my own mind on the ethics and morality, but I don't understand the legal aspect at all.

Except I take it as a given that lying to the insurance company to get something is fraud. And willful withholding of information you had a duty to disclose would amount to the same thing.

Beyond that?
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Obviously, we can't have infinite voltage, or the universe would tear itself to shreds, and we wouldn't be discussing Segways.
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Old 07-29-2012, 03:47 AM   #22
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Old 07-30-2012, 02:42 AM   #23
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I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. I can speak about one LARGE insurer, namely TRICARE (the military equivalent of Blue Cross). For what they define as DME (Durable Medical Equipment), they pay a monthly rental for the device for the duration that your physician says that you need it.

This monthly rental is one-twelfth of what TRICARE has determined is the fair price for the device. In the event that you end up using the device for one year or more, the device becomes yours, and now you are responsible for the care and maintenance of it.

In this case, I don't see a problem with disposing of the device however you wish, however, there are some State (and possibly Federal) laws restricting the sale of medical devices unless properly licensed. Again, the advice of an attorney would be a good way to keep you enjoying the fresh air of the out-of-doors with enough in your pockets to by an occasional ice-cream-cone.

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Old 08-09-2012, 10:51 PM   #24
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In my case (where Pennsylvania Department of Labor and Industry provided some funding) I had to be medically evaluated to determine if I was fit enough to stand and ride a Segway. They had cases in the past where people requested a Segway, but did not have either the strength or balance to ride one. My evaluation included strength and balance tests, an evaluation of how it would help me get back to work, and also a demonstration ride for the doctors testing me (Segway i2 provided by the dealer who would eventually sell the machine to the state). So with the need and capability demonstrated, they purchased the i2 for my use (the state still owns it).

The state got a deal because a Segway is 10-20% the cost of an electric wheelchair. I got a mobility device much more usable and suited to my needs.

Given the intensive level of testing and documentation, I think I would be in serious legal trouble if I sold it for something else. I literally had a medical prescription written for me for the Segway. So I guess the same laws would apply.
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