Chapter 4. Update: MDC and Simon Mall

[rickb]

Personally I feel an event organizer should have the right to ban any vehicle that is not crowd friendly unless it is ADA approved and displays the placard. If the placard is displayed openly it prevents the potential of conflict with security personnel.

Even security has some difficulty moving their golf carts thru crowds of people. Imagine a 1000 of these types of vehicles clogging and traffic jamming already narrow corridors used by people for "recreational" value only. We may not even be able to negotiate our Segways around these events. My opinion which obviously is open to great debate.

[Tarkus]

Originally Posted by rickb

Personally I feel an event organizer should have the right to ban any vehicle that is not crowd friendly unless it is ADA approved and displays the placard. If the placard is displayed openly it prevents the potential of conflict with security personnel.

Even security has some difficulty moving their golf carts thru crowds of people. Imagine a 1000 of these types of vehicles clogging and traffic jamming already narrow corridors used by people for "recreational" value only. We may not even be able to negotiate our Segways around these events. My opinion which obviously is open to great debate.

I'll let others debate, I've glided in some of the most crowded places on earth.

What I do want to address is "ADA approved".
The ADA protects the right to use a device but there are no ADA approved devices.

In 1991 when publishing the first ADA, Dick Thornburg made reference to the fact that there would be no exhaustive list of devices and services because any attempt to do so would eliminate the new devices that would become available with new and immerging technology.

Be Big,
AMAC

[rickb]

I hope to be gliding in crowds as well. I'm curious though as to how many other gliders were in your immediate vicinity and is there a potential for to many recreational Segways, bikes, skates, skateboards, and golf carts. This is possibly why events issue a "general" ban of these devices and are not just targeting those of us who need/use them for increased mobility. My only previous experience with crowds has been on foot and it has been a long time ago. I hope to get back out there on a Segway soon and am hoping for the positive reception that many of you have experienced.

[rickb]

Will ADA protect my right to use the Trikke as a mobility device?
http://www.trikke.com/EV/LP.html

[Rolacoy]

Cool, there is going to be a lot of this kind of transportation to come and it should be welcomed with gas at $4.00. The Trikke looks like it would jar you teeth out with such small wheels.

[rickb]

Very cool and affordable compared to a Segway but would it be welcomed at the Simon Mall and mentioned zoos with my placard and ADA Guidelines in hand?

[Tarkus]

Originally Posted by rickb

Will ADA protect my right to use the Trikke as a mobility device?
http://www.trikke.com/EV/LP.html

I couldn't find the dimensions but from what I see yes it should be protected. But I'll guaranty that Disney would try there best to stop you with all types of inane excuses .

That's as long as the user is disabled and it doesn't require a lot of leg work.

As far as too many "recreational" Segways etal at a given time, we are talk about mobility for persons with disabilities not recreational vehicles .

Hope you get in a crowd again soon, lots of fun !

Be Big,
AMAC

[KSagal]

Originally Posted by rickb

Personally I feel an event organizer should have the right to ban any vehicle that is not crowd friendly unless it is ADA approved and displays the placard. If the placard is displayed openly it prevents the potential of conflict with security personnel.

Even security has some difficulty moving their golf carts thru crowds of people. Imagine a 1000 of these types of vehicles clogging and traffic jamming already narrow corridors used by people for "recreational" value only. We may not even be able to negotiate our Segways around these events. My opinion which obviously is open to great debate.

Rick, I will take on the comparison to segways in a crowd vs the golf carts thru crowds of people.

That is totally apples and oranges. Maybe even apples and watermellons.

A segway takes up no more landscape than a person, or marginally more. A golf cart takes up tens or dozens more landscape than a person, or all the people on the golf cart. A segway can turn in place, with one wheel going forward, and the other in reverse. A golf cart takes tens of feet in a turning radius. Six or 8 people, standing shoulder to shoulder have to move to allow a golf cart to go by. One or two people, standing shoulder to shoulder have to move to allow a segway to go by.

I am not particularly advocating for disabled people to use segways where ever they want. That pretty much is the law, even many places don't accept it.

I am advocating for people to use segways where ever they want. It is smart transportation, and need not use disability as a crutch to stand behind.

That, at least, is my opinion.

[IcanGlide]

Rick,

It's not about the crowds, it's about the event. It is sad to say but we live in a time when no one wants to be inconvenienced, with the attitude of ban the one for the sake of the many. I went to a job fair a few years ago on my Segway and there were hundreds of people packed under one roof. We were literally shoulder to shoulder. I stood atop my Segway, holding it perfectly still, my right and left hands touching the person on either side of me, in front and back I was touching or was being touched by someone. I never mashed anyone nor did anyone mash me. None of the ladies were offended either. I held position for ten minutes or more at a time; when the crowd moved, I moved.

It is easy for those in today's society to quickly dismiss and ignore us. It's as if they are embarrassed by our disability and do not possess the confidence in themselves to trust us. And I can't tell you how many times I've been called lazy, one person even asked if I was paralyzed!! Clue: I was standing up.

What has been allowed to happen is frivilous lawsuits. Someone that doesn't have more common sense than a goat that would try to drive with a hot cup of coffee between their legs shouldn't be allowed to bring suit--it should be thrown out. I challenge any of you today, the next time you are in a restaurant, to order a cup of coffee and pour it down your trousers--hot is still hot and that would still hurt.

My point is, in one form or another, these type of lawsuits will eventually affect us all, and that is why Simon Malls, Disney, Busch Gardens and whoever else, tries to ban the device. It is too easy to get sued these days.

Business owners/managers that think like you are the reason we have the ADA in the first place. Not everyone can stand or walk or move, period. Should we be forced to stay out of a place simply because a lot of people happen to be there too? I shouldn't be allowed to enjoy our parks, malls, shops, trade shows or whatever event simply because some people may have to be polite and yield every now and again. Do you really pay much mind when you are walking in a crowd and get bumped? What is your response?

Since acquiring my Segway five years ago, I cannot tell you the joy and satisfaction I felt being able to keep up with my wife. It is a Godsend. I have been confronted on occasion but I stood my ground and won.

Really and truly, those that seek to ban us are truly shallow-minded people expressing shallow-minded thoughts.

Frank

[rickb]

Frank.................it's people like me? My general comment and point is that I see why public and private entities ban vehicles in general for certain events hosted in areas that are usually vehicle friendly when there are unusually high numbers of attendees. It seems to me that it's a general ban and not meant to ban those using them that have mobility issues and state issued placards with a few "Goofy exceptions" by some "Mickey Mouse" corporate lawyers.

I'm looking to purchase the right seg solutuion for my personal situation so I can keep up with my wife and you for that matter. It will be a godsend for me as well. 500 Segways at any one event may be to many and I understand why businesses may have safety & liability issues with this type of transportation in general. A few riders may not have your common sense. I don't own or manage a business and ADA is there for me not because of me.