Chapter 4. Update: MDC and Simon Mall

[Lily Kerns]

(For chapters1-3 of all this go back to this thread: http://forums.segwaychat.com/showthr...hlight=chapter )

Last Sat. I went in to the Springfield Nature Center (a Missouri department of conservation property.) This is a handicap accessible building. I have a Special Use permit to be there, but deliberately left my MDC permit card at home, since the new ADA law says they must recognize the state disability tag. I also removed the disability symbol which I normally have on the seg's bag. The woman at the desk checked to see if I had a permit displayed. I asked her if she was aware of the new ADA rules. She didn't have a clue.

Turns out that she was the office manager, working weekends because of budget cuts. We had never met but she recognised my name when I introduced myself, and let it slip that they had been told to make me welcome. Hmmm...not sure if that was a simple fact or recognition that I could --and would-- make trouble if they didn't... <G>

Anyway, we talked for close to an hour, the first time I have had an intelligent conversation with anyone from the MDC, both of us trying to make sense of the issues involved. Of course, no one at her level makes any MDC decisions--but it was a good conversation...

Today I had a couple hours between meetings so went to the Battlefield Mall in Springfield. This is a Simon property which uses Segways for their security people, and several Simon malls have been sued over Segway issues.

When I was in there a year ago I was threatened with arrest by a security guard, then informed that all wheelchairs and mobility devices had to register, get a sticker, Segway users had to sign a liability waiver--etc. Their rules at the door now say that Segs "can be used only by the disabled and in acordance with special rules." I did not have my disability symbol or my state placard in view.

I had only gone a little way when a security guard--on his Seg- stopped me. He was a very pleasant young man who introduced himself as Head of Security and asked if I was aware that I needed to go to the Mall office and fill out some documents. I asked if he was aware of the new ADA rules. He didn't have a clue. So I told him that in that case, the Mall was in violation of the new rules, showed him my state tag--and educated him. <G> I gave him my 2 page printout of relevant Title II and III ADA 2010 sections. He took the papers graciously. I told him that I would move my tag into view to simplify things for them. That I did not have it displayed as I normally do since this was a test of their compliance. (Nice formal ring to that, eh?) We thanked each other for courtesy and cooperation and that was that.

I rode for another half hour or so. I met another guard on foot twice. I KNOW he saw me but he did not speak or show any obvious interest. Obviously they did not make any policy changes in that half hour, but apparently I came across as someone who knew what she was talking about--and should be handled with care. <G> The real test will come when I go back in next week without my tags displayed... I will go in to their office next time and see what papers--if any-- they want to have signed--and if they have changed the office door to one that can be opened by anyone but a strong man...

Fun, fun, fun!

[rwoynaro]

Awesome, Lily. You are actually changing the world one little place at a time. Thanks very much and keep up the good work.

[Lily Kerns]

Originally Posted by Lily Kerns

(For chapters1-3 of all this go back to this thread: http://forums.segwaychat.com/showthr...hlight=chapter )
Today I had a couple hours between meetings so went to the Battlefield Mall in Springfield. This is a Simon property which uses Segways for their security people, and several Simon malls have been sued over Segway issues.

When I was in there a year ago I was threatened with arrest by a security guard, then informed that all wheelchairs and mobility devices had to register, get a sticker, Segway users had to sign a liability waiver--etc. Their rules at the door now say that Segs "can be used only by the disabled and in acordance with special rules." I did not have my disability symbol or my state placard in view.

I had only gone a little way when a security guard--on his Seg- stopped me. He was a very pleasant young man who introduced himself as Head of Security and asked if I was aware that I needed to go to the Mall office and fill out some documents. I asked if he was aware of the new ADA rules. He didn't have a clue. So I told him that in that case, the Mall was in violation of the new rules, showed him my state tag--and educated him. <G> I gave him my 2 page printout of relevant Title II and III ADA 2010 sections. He took the papers graciously. I told him that I would move my tag into view to simplify things for them. That I did not have it displayed as I normally do since this was a test of their compliance. (Nice formal ring to that, eh?) We thanked each other for courtesy and cooperation and that was that.

I rode for another half hour or so. I met another guard on foot twice. I KNOW he saw me but he did not speak or show any obvious interest. Obviously they did not make any policy changes in that half hour, but apparently I came across as someone who knew what she was talking about--and should be handled with care. <G> The real test will come when I go back in next week without my tags displayed... I will go in to their office next time and see what papers--if any-- they want to have signed--and if they have changed the office door to one that can be opened by anyone but a strong man...

Fun, fun, fun!

I stopped in at the Battlefield Mall in Springfield today. The same guard on his Seg started toward me, saw the handicap symbol which I had in view to make it simpler for them. He nodded and went on his way.

I'd really liked to have talked to the manager, but decided to leave well enough alone....

[Rolacoy]

So if Disney World wins the mall will be closed to the handi-caped on Segways?

[Tarkus]

Originally Posted by Rolacoy

So if Disney World wins the mall will be closed to the handi-caped on Segways?

That would be up to Simon, a company that still breaks the law by asking for waivers.
They fought against Segway use in past and should Disney be successful the regulations of March 15 would disappear .

They like others will use that against access .

Be Big,
AMAC

[Rolacoy]

In other words the court ruling would say that the ADA law is unconstitutional? I wonder why the places that we want to glide single out Segways. Most places would not bar powered wheelchairs and scooters. For instance Canton, Texas Trade Days. People had ever kind of device there. However, they do not allow bicycles, skateboards or golf carts. But security uses golfcarts.

[jgbackes]

If I had the cash I'd buy one of these ally chairs and rush right down to Disneyland. How in the world will they keep that out?

[Tarkus]

Originally Posted by jgbackes

If I had the cash I'd buy one of these ally chairs and rush right down to Disneyland. How in the world will they keep that out?

They will keep it out a because it's a Segway .
Dress it up but it's a Segway and they feel the new regs don't effect them.

It doesn't fit into the wheelchair category so it's a no-go.

Be Big,
AMAC

PS-I've been following that seat and it looks spectacular !

[rickb]

I don't think Disney would recognize the Ally as a segway...........but rather a power chair............essentially because of the steering mechanism and seat. Doesn't look much different than a Jazzy Power Chair. I would risk jail or cash in my Disney pass if they denied me access on that specific product. If they did I assume "Goofy" is head of security.

[Tarkus]

Originally Posted by rickb

I don't think Disney would recognize the Ally as a segway...........but rather a power chair............essentially because of the steering mechanism and seat. Doesn't look much different than a Jazzy Power Chair. I would risk jail or cash in my Disney pass if they denied me access on that specific product. If they did I assume "Goofy" is head of security.

You can't hide self balancing and the good folks at Disney would sniff it out. They are on the lookout and those two wheels will look real familiar to them. Disney owns a ton of Segways .

That being said I would love to park my butt on one and give it a shot.

Be Big,
AMAC