A little crash :(

[KSagal]

Originally Posted by Carlo

I have written "Without offence" because I'm not against gay people, because in Italy the gay guys are very neglected and because I want not seem a racist.

Anyway I wish you a nice day.

I understood what Carlo was saying the first time. He did say that he offered his statement without offense, yet no one seems to have believed him...

He is doing a great job of communicating in our language, and has covered his potential mistakes by saying what he intended (without offense) and also that he is in Italy, and english is not his native language...

You can have no idea how he intended what he said, other than to either believe him or not. I believe and did believe him...

Anyone is welcome to take offense at some turn of phrase, and even say so, but there is no reason not to give the benifit of the doubt, especially in this case. There is no excuse for attacking what may have been, (and seems to have been) a simple mistake in expression.

I believe the only narrow minded people here are the ones who have so aggressively attacked Carlo. As an american, I am embarrassed by this rude reception.

Carlo, please do not be offended, and realize that most have more class than has been demonstrated here...

And as far as the hello kitty stickers... My 5 year old daughter loves them. It would not even occur to me to use that particular sticker as an adult, it seems foolish, juvenile, and effeminate to me. However, it may not seem that way to another, so I would not attack them for using it.

Again, I say, Welcome Carlo, (Nice name by the way) and please forgive those who trespass upon you...

[JRjr]

Originally Posted by KSagal

I believe the only narrow minded people here are the ones who have so aggressively attacked Carlo. As an american, I am embarrassed by this rude reception.

It so easy to accuse others of being narrow-minded... but Karl, until you've walked in my shoes for a while, I'd like to see you be ever so non-chalant about being the constant butt of negativity. I've accepted Carlo's explanation and believe he didn't intend to offend. And your excuse?

JRjr

[Five-Flags]

Originally Posted by Carlo

Hahaha, we are already 2 Seg posessors in my little city, if I also stick 2 Hello Kitty stickers on its side I would seem a gay (withouth offence)!

Originally Posted by Moebius

I always get offended when someone uses a term like "gay" to refer to something that is negative. You would feel uncomfortable having Hello Kitty stickers on your Segway, so you call them "gay".
...

No -- he didn't call them gay -- he said that he would seem a gay.

I don't see anything in his post that has a negative connotation. His statement was merely a differentiation. If he felt that he would be perceived as being gay but was not, is that any different than being gay and not wanting to be perceived as heterosexual? At least in this part of the country, gay is a descriptive term of a particular lifestyle, not necessarily a slur. There are plenty of other terms available for insulting and bashing -- and all too many bigots willing to use them -- than to look for animosity where none is intended.

[segsurfer]

While I don't condone to use of the word gay to distinguish something negative, I'm inclined to agree with Karl and Five-Flags.
-segsurfer

[KSagal]

Originally Posted by Moebius

Nuances of a particular phrasing? How are people supposed to interpret someone saying that he would feel "gay" if he put Hello Kitty stickers on his Segway?

His response indicates to me that he is fully aware of what the word "gay" means in English and he used that word just like every other biggot does to describe something someone is scared of or uncomfortable with.

Quit being so PC and look at what he said for what it is, not what you hope it is.

Chris,

I would like some help, myself. I speak english fairly well, and while I am hereosexual, I find it offensive as well when people us the term 'gay' as a pejoritive.

However, I don't really know what "gay" means.

I know several people who are gay. For now, let's just speak of the men. Many people are lots of things, including gay, or straight, or married, or single, or in a committed relationship with a man, or a woman. Most of these people look fairly interchangeable to me. In other words, they do not make it a point to display any particular predeliction.

I also know some men who would I guess be called 'metrosexuals'. They have very softened features, do a lot of 'manscaping' and some enhance their appearance with make-up, cosmetic procedures, or other aids. I presume they are somewhat straight, but the line is not clear to me, and I have not asked nor been told.

I also know some men who are flamboyantly effeminate. They are gay, but far more than they just have relations with other men, they are outragiously anti male, or anti masculine, or what-ever you want to call them. They have a tendency to call themselves flamers or queer, but I am probably dating myself with some of those terms as being last year, or last decade. These guys often cross dress, wear makeup and a variety of other things to make themselves stand out from the first group listed above. They have no desire to be confused with that first group.

Some of the guys in this last group call themselves 'gay'. Am I wrong to do it also? If I am referring to this over the top behaviour, and use the same term, 'gay' that they use to describe it, am I wrong?

Is it possible that living here in the Boston Suburbs, my understanding of a title or word may be different than a person in the LA downtown? OR maybe Kansas?

I speak english pretty well, yet there are still things I don't get.

I would appreciate it if you would help in explaining some of my questions to me...

[JRjr]

Let's see, were I to use the "N" word here... no offence meant of course, would that be OK?

If so, I stand corrected.

JRjr

[KSagal]

Originally Posted by JRjr

It so easy to accuse others of being narrow-minded... but Karl, until you've walked in my shoes for a while, I'd like to see you be ever so non-chalant about being the constant butt of negativity. I've accepted Carlo's explanation and believe he didn't intend to offend. And your excuse?

JRjr

I hardly need any excuse to you or anyone. My opinion stands. A narrow minded person is the one who attacks another because of a word, when the disclaimer was in the original message, in case that word was able to be mis-interpreted.

You have no idea the burdens I bare. You cannot tell me what I know or do not know, as you do not know where my shoes have walked either. I have had this argument erroneously thrust upon me in the past.

Have you had governments try to exterminate your whole family because of their religion? Have you had several relatives thrust into ovens? Have you... I will not go further, but I will say that I have lived the life of the disrespected minority and do know about what I am speaking of. Just because you are ignorant of my past does not mean it does not exist.

I was simply holding people accountable for that which they said today. I was speaking of the here and now...

If you are saying that it is okay for someone to attack Carlo for saying something that they thought was offensive because of something that some other person did in their past, and not because of what Carlo actually said, I say again, that is wrong.

I hold people accountable for what they say. This included Carlo, but what not restricted to Carlo. I was less offended by his comments than those of other people.

[quade]

Originally Posted by JRjr

Let's see, were I to use the "N" word here... no offence meant of course, would that be OK?

If so, I stand corrected.

JRjr

I dunno if some of the folks involved here watch South Park, but the episode With Apologies to Jesse Jackson immediately leaps to mind.

The people that don't understand how certain words can be offensive even if immediately followed by a parenthetical disclaimer, will never actually be able to fully understand simply because they do not share your frame of reference of the word. They never really can. It's not your fault and it's not their fault. It simply "is".

Does that make it ok? No.

Some words are just offensive (even with the parenthetical disclaimers) and adults should know better.

[KSagal]

Originally Posted by JRjr

Let's see, were I to use the "N" word here... no offence meant of course, would that be OK?

If so, I stand corrected.

JRjr

I am not offended by the word 'Nebicannezzer'. Are you?

Instead of trying to enflame this, why not answer my questions from post 26?

[segsurfer]

IMO, gay is not a derogatory when referring to homosexual people; Calling someone a f****t would be different. While what Carlo said might not be appropriate, you gotta give him the benefit of the doubt. If you want to stop the use of the word gay as a synonym for stupid, don't go after someone from another country who on their own admission doesn't speak perfect english...go after America's teens, they seem to use gay as their fall-back insult term. If somebody calls me a cripple, I'm gonna be slightly perturbed, but I have to consider the situation and do my best to educate, not berate them.
-segsurfer