Rentals

geo · 05-22-2003, 06:22 PM

Hi,

I am inquiring about starting a rental business. Does Segway frown upon this? Of course I am concerned over liability; would an idemnification waiver and comprehensive liability package be sufficient for protection? any thoughts?

Thanks for your consideration.

pt · 05-22-2003, 06:29 PM

there hasn't been any public statement from segway, llc about rentals. companies that make bicycles and cars usually don't comment on rental businesses either. if you're concerned with liability and all that stuff, you should consult your lawyer. i personally think renting segway hts is not in the best interest for segway owners and the persons who are renting -until- the segway has more time to be used in public and gain acceptance. i don't think renting gets us there the best way- just my opinions.

there are some folks starting rental businesses (http://www.fun-transport.com) and it seems to be going great, you may want to contact them as well.

cheers,
pt

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

SegwayUtah · 05-22-2003, 06:39 PM

geo,

I spoke with Segway today about buying a few segways for customers to use to glide around with a lecturer, and Segway said this falls under rental and Segway does not sell Segways with the knowledge that they will be used for rental.

If you started a rental business, you would need to buy all your units as a consumer and then deal with all the legal issues yourself, etc.

Personally, I would contact Larry from Spokane and talk to him about a franchise. He seems to have a good thing going.

Chris

NEVrland · 05-22-2003, 08:13 PM

NEVrland is the only authorized Segway renter in the country.
It seems that there are other people/ companies that are starting there own companies with a few units. (More power to them)

We have processes in place to make sure that this will be long term business.

You can email me with questions.

keith@nevrlandinc.com

Regards

Keith Albrizzi NEVrland, Inc. Relay Transportation 407-566-0911 Segway Service, Sales and Rentals

GyroGo · 05-23-2003, 02:47 AM

I fully endorse proper instruction to renters and appropriate insurance.

While Segway LLC may not be explicitly supporting rental use (with notable exception for NEVrland, Keolis, and Disney Cruises), it has not expressly prohibited rental either.

As an advocate of Segway technology and admirer of Dean Kamen, I too want to see the Segway gain public acceptance and would not want to see any adverse incidents jeopardize that. While we can argue over how long the "early adoption" phase should last to assure the public has a safe impression, IMHO we are quickly nearing the time to unleash the safe Seg on the masses. It is only in the best long-term interest of Segway LLC to have more people trying, using, and purchasing Segways. Rentals allow people to try a Segway who otherwise would never have the opportunity. It is a bit elitist to suggest that all renters belong to some sort of underclass that is not as responsible as those who purchase their own Segs.

There is an ironic chicken/egg argument in saying that more time is needed for the Seg to be used in public (by only owners) before it can be accepted by the public. I say, give it to the public and they will accept it! Let them rent it, they will LOVE it! No, I'm not missing the point about establishing a solid safety record first, but my ticking clock is telling me that the morning light is approaching. Let them ride Seg!

. . SegCenter.com . .
StirlingInfo StirlingChat

pt · 05-23-2003, 03:22 AM

i don't think segway could "expressly prohibit" even if they wanted to, all they can do is not sell you a segway if you tell them you're going to rent it, at least that is what it sounds like based on what others have reported.

no matter what, it seems people are going to rent their hts with or without segway's blessing. the fact that it is possible to work with segway (nevrland) leads me to believe it's possible.

at the end of the day, no matter what is ideal for the community- people are going to rent their hts, sell them on ebay and things like that. the best we can do is hope it works out to help us as opposed to hurt us.

cheers,
pt

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

Brooster · 05-23-2003, 03:51 AM

I'll jump in here. While the Seg supposedly takes only 20 or 30 seconds to get "comfortable" on, it takes a long time to "know." One of the words on the limited edition print is "depth." This is indeed "deep" technology, and I know that because even though I received my HT on February 27th ... it's capabilities still continue to amaze me.

I do worry that the work we do as "ambassadors" could be unwound by only a few careless, overconfident renters. As owners, we're committed to ensuring the success of this technology. We're in this for the long term. A renter is in it only by the hour ... and turns in the machine, and walks away. A renter may not be concerned about the long-term implications of his or her actions. We're at a point where public perception is everything to the success of this product. I'd like to see the emphasis at this point on getting the machine into the hands of people who are going to care for more than a couple of hours. Doing that means getting the price down ... but getting the price down requires more orders. It's sort of a Catch-22.

Keep doing those demos, folks!

Brooster

GyroGo · 05-23-2003, 06:05 AM

pt and Broo, you know I really do understand and respect your point (and pt, I stated on a previous rental thread that liberal laws protect the owners of personal property of their freedom, though I'm no lawyer).

But the day will have to come one day when we congratulate and thank the Ambassadors, and while their work will NEVER be done, it will eventually be time to move on to the next phase of product mass adoption. That's what I'm talkin about. I say sooner, you say later.

I'm sure that statistics will show that renters of jetskis and backhoes and chainsaws have more accidents per hour of use than owners. When you rent a car, you're not as familiar with the controls and handling and probably more likely to crash than an owner. Snow skis, boats, planes, construction equipment....we aren't going to stop rental because of a slightly higher risk. I'm not in favor of accidents. I'm in favor of freedom, and we are talking about freedom.

But basically we seem to agree to that the early phase requires caution eventually leading to public acceptance and mass adoption. Segway has proven thus far to be safe. Sell a ton more and rent a bunch and the risks inherent in reality dictate that we'll see a few unfortunate accidents. Society is now smart enough that it will not reject Seggie because of a few stupid or bizarre accidents. You guys do, of course, believe the Segway is basically safe, don't you?

Well, the question for you gentlemen is: When then? How long?

ps. Broo, hope you can still answer my e-mail even if you don't agree with me.

. . SegCenter.com . .
StirlingInfo StirlingChat

LarryL · 05-23-2003, 09:54 AM

Just to put in my opinion as one of the Rental companies who has had the most renters and the most press.

We have a much more extensive training for our renters than Segway had for owners. We put our renters through an obstacle course that simulates real world use and by the time they leaver our rental center, they are very well equipped to ride safely.

Of all the renters we have had so far, we have only had a problem with one person who tried to let someone else ride while they were out with it. Our renters are very careful and very good around others. As long as the people are stressed safety from the beginning and know they are being monitored, it can be as safe, or safer, than renting a bicycle.

Many people want to enjoy the technology of the Segway and can't afford to lay out the $5,000. This gives them the chance. It also makes a lot of new owners. We could have sold a lot of Segways but have directed them to purchase from Segway or LM Lexus.

So it can be done and it can be done safely, it’s all up to the rental company to uphold the standards and ensure they rent to the right people.

Larry

Brooster · 05-23-2003, 07:34 PM

I guess I was just voicing some of my concerns out loud. I in no way intended to trash the whole concept of renting Segway HTs. I just think this stuff needs to be considered. And I'm impressed that LarryL seems to have considered these issues thoroughly.

Brooster

05-22-2003, 06:22 PM	#1
geo New Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: , , . Posts: 1	Rentals Hi, I am inquiring about starting a rental business. Does Segway frown upon this? Of course I am concerned over liability; would an idemnification waiver and comprehensive liability package be sufficient for protection? any thoughts? Thanks for your consideration.

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05-22-2003, 06:29 PM	#2
pt Advanced Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: seattle, wa, USA. Posts: 3,000	there hasn't been any public statement from segway, llc about rentals. companies that make bicycles and cars usually don't comment on rental businesses either. if you're concerned with liability and all that stuff, you should consult your lawyer. i personally think renting segway hts is not in the best interest for segway owners and the persons who are renting -until- the segway has more time to be used in public and gain acceptance. i don't think renting gets us there the best way- just my opinions. there are some folks starting rental businesses (http://www.fun-transport.com) and it seems to be going great, you may want to contact them as well. cheers, pt ====================== segway ht journal: http://www.bookofseg.com other stuff: http://www.flashenabled.com

05-22-2003, 06:39 PM	#3
SegwayUtah Advanced Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 2,644	geo, I spoke with Segway today about buying a few segways for customers to use to glide around with a lecturer, and Segway said this falls under rental and Segway does not sell Segways with the knowledge that they will be used for rental. If you started a rental business, you would need to buy all your units as a consumer and then deal with all the legal issues yourself, etc. Personally, I would contact Larry from Spokane and talk to him about a franchise. He seems to have a good thing going. Chris

05-22-2003, 08:13 PM	#4
NEVrland Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: , Florida, . Posts: 34	NEVrland is the only authorized Segway renter in the country. It seems that there are other people/ companies that are starting there own companies with a few units. (More power to them) We have processes in place to make sure that this will be long term business. You can email me with questions. keith@nevrlandinc.com Regards Keith Albrizzi NEVrland, Inc. Relay Transportation 407-566-0911 Segway Service, Sales and Rentals

05-23-2003, 02:47 AM	#5
GyroGo Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Chicago, IL, USA. Posts: 1,136	I fully endorse proper instruction to renters and appropriate insurance. While Segway LLC may not be explicitly supporting rental use (with notable exception for NEVrland, Keolis, and Disney Cruises), it has not expressly prohibited rental either. As an advocate of Segway technology and admirer of Dean Kamen, I too want to see the Segway gain public acceptance and would not want to see any adverse incidents jeopardize that. While we can argue over how long the "early adoption" phase should last to assure the public has a safe impression, IMHO we are quickly nearing the time to unleash the safe Seg on the masses. It is only in the best long-term interest of Segway LLC to have more people trying, using, and purchasing Segways. Rentals allow people to try a Segway who otherwise would never have the opportunity. It is a bit elitist to suggest that all renters belong to some sort of underclass that is not as responsible as those who purchase their own Segs. There is an ironic chicken/egg argument in saying that more time is needed for the Seg to be used in public (by only owners) before it can be accepted by the public. I say, give it to the public and they will accept it! Let them rent it, they will LOVE it! No, I'm not missing the point about establishing a solid safety record first, but my ticking clock is telling me that the morning light is approaching. Let them ride Seg! . . SegCenter.com . . StirlingInfo StirlingChat

05-23-2003, 03:22 AM	#6
pt Advanced Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: seattle, wa, USA. Posts: 3,000	i don't think segway could "expressly prohibit" even if they wanted to, all they can do is not sell you a segway if you tell them you're going to rent it, at least that is what it sounds like based on what others have reported. no matter what, it seems people are going to rent their hts with or without segway's blessing. the fact that it is possible to work with segway (nevrland) leads me to believe it's possible. at the end of the day, no matter what is ideal for the community- people are going to rent their hts, sell them on ebay and things like that. the best we can do is hope it works out to help us as opposed to hurt us. cheers, pt ====================== segway ht journal: http://www.bookofseg.com other stuff: http://www.flashenabled.com

05-23-2003, 03:51 AM	#7
Brooster Advanced Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 4,050	I'll jump in here. While the Seg supposedly takes only 20 or 30 seconds to get "comfortable" on, it takes a long time to "know." One of the words on the limited edition print is "depth." This is indeed "deep" technology, and I know that because even though I received my HT on February 27th ... it's capabilities still continue to amaze me. I do worry that the work we do as "ambassadors" could be unwound by only a few careless, overconfident renters. As owners, we're committed to ensuring the success of this technology. We're in this for the long term. A renter is in it only by the hour ... and turns in the machine, and walks away. A renter may not be concerned about the long-term implications of his or her actions. We're at a point where public perception is everything to the success of this product. I'd like to see the emphasis at this point on getting the machine into the hands of people who are going to care for more than a couple of hours. Doing that means getting the price down ... but getting the price down requires more orders. It's sort of a Catch-22. Keep doing those demos, folks! Brooster

05-23-2003, 06:05 AM	#8
GyroGo Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Chicago, IL, USA. Posts: 1,136	pt and Broo, you know I really do understand and respect your point (and pt, I stated on a previous rental thread that liberal laws protect the owners of personal property of their freedom, though I'm no lawyer). But the day will have to come one day when we congratulate and thank the Ambassadors, and while their work will NEVER be done, it will eventually be time to move on to the next phase of product mass adoption. That's what I'm talkin about. I say sooner, you say later. I'm sure that statistics will show that renters of jetskis and backhoes and chainsaws have more accidents per hour of use than owners. When you rent a car, you're not as familiar with the controls and handling and probably more likely to crash than an owner. Snow skis, boats, planes, construction equipment....we aren't going to stop rental because of a slightly higher risk. I'm not in favor of accidents. I'm in favor of freedom, and we are talking about freedom. But basically we seem to agree to that the early phase requires caution eventually leading to public acceptance and mass adoption. Segway has proven thus far to be safe. Sell a ton more and rent a bunch and the risks inherent in reality dictate that we'll see a few unfortunate accidents. Society is now smart enough that it will not reject Seggie because of a few stupid or bizarre accidents. You guys do, of course, believe the Segway is basically safe, don't you? Well, the question for you gentlemen is: When then? How long? ps. Broo, hope you can still answer my e-mail even if you don't agree with me. . . SegCenter.com . . StirlingInfo StirlingChat

05-23-2003, 09:54 AM	#9
LarryL Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Spokane, WA, . Posts: 132	Just to put in my opinion as one of the Rental companies who has had the most renters and the most press. We have a much more extensive training for our renters than Segway had for owners. We put our renters through an obstacle course that simulates real world use and by the time they leaver our rental center, they are very well equipped to ride safely. Of all the renters we have had so far, we have only had a problem with one person who tried to let someone else ride while they were out with it. Our renters are very careful and very good around others. As long as the people are stressed safety from the beginning and know they are being monitored, it can be as safe, or safer, than renting a bicycle. Many people want to enjoy the technology of the Segway and can't afford to lay out the $5,000. This gives them the chance. It also makes a lot of new owners. We could have sold a lot of Segways but have directed them to purchase from Segway or LM Lexus. So it can be done and it can be done safely, it’s all up to the rental company to uphold the standards and ensure they rent to the right people. Larry

05-23-2003, 07:34 PM	#10
Brooster Advanced Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 4,050	I guess I was just voicing some of my concerns out loud. I in no way intended to trash the whole concept of renting Segway HTs. I just think this stuff needs to be considered. And I'm impressed that LarryL seems to have considered these issues thoroughly. Brooster

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