Here is part of the problem.

[Tarkus]

For anyone that has said in the past that nobody would use a wheelchair/scooter who did not have a disability.

http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/nati...?showAll=y&c=y

This also reminds me of a story a friend in L.A. told me that over 60% of his "mobility device" sales were to the young and able bodied.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10655557/site/newsweek/

Is it just me or does anyone else find this disturbing, or another roadblock as to who can use what where?

I would LOVE to be able to walk the strip without assistance !


Be Big,
Alan

[JohnM]

Originally Posted by Tarkus

For anyone that has said in the past that nobody would use a wheelchair/scooter who did not have a disability.

http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/nati...?showAll=y&c=y

This also reminds me of a story a friend in L.A. told me that over 60% of his "mobility device" sales were to the young and able bodied.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10655557/site/newsweek/

Is it just me or does anyone else find this disturbing, or another roadblock as to who can use what where?

I would LOVE to be able to walk the strip without assistance !

Alan,
You seem to be on the verge of speaking heresy. You find it disturbing that any able-bodied person would chose to use a mobility device rather than walk? Isn't the core of the rationale behind the Segway, an electric personal assisted mobility device, that it will allow its users the go further and faster, making better use of their time and energy? Isn't it the Kamen-given right of all mobility device users to ride on sidewalks and recreational paths, amusement parks and Wal-Marts, government buildings and shopping malls, or the Vegas Strip? Don't you get it? Shame on you to suggest that a mobility device user exercising his/her rights is disturbing. After all, it may be the only exercise they'll ever get.

[dale@thecoys.net]

Re: "part of the problem"

Originally Posted by Tarkus

For anyone that has said in the past that nobody would use a wheelchair/scooter who did not have a disability.

I don't think I've ever said that. I probably understand your point, but you need to first define "the problem", and "disability".

I'm 68 and in reasonable health. I could probably walk 20 or more miles in a day. But I don't apologize for using my car to do that.

I could certainly walk to an artfest in the Santa Fe Plaza (about 1.5 miles), and could walk back - if I stopped to rest several times, due to the 1000-ft change in elevation. I don't apologize for using a Segway to do that, just as others don't apologize for using a bicycle.

Golf carts are popular with able-bodied golfers.

If I drive to the mall, I expect to find a parking spot that's not labeled with blue signs and stripes - I don't expect to be prohibited from parking at all.

My point is that this is not a "black or white" situation. People are "differently abled", of course. Example: a 6-month-old child is not disabled, but can't walk. Should a stroller be banned? After all, a parent can carry the child. Oh - how about twins or triplets.

Why should facilitating the rights/health/movement of the "officially disabled" restrict the rights/health/movement of someone who is not "officially" disabled?

[GlennO]

This looks like the perfect place for a Segway rental business!

I think that this is good because it puts the Segway on the same level as wheelchairs - as long as they don't abuse them and take advantage of their situation.

What this calls for are national disabled ID's/placards, that would be stuck on a wheelchair/Segway/whatever - to show that the rider is legally disabled, and uses (whatever) device to get around.

Just out of curiousity - is there a wheelchair rental place at the Mall of America?

Glenn

[Desert_Seg]

Not speaking for Alan here but I think I know what he is trying to say. Knowing Alan I'm sure he will correct me if I'm wrong.

One of the issues affecting the decision to allow Segway usage in many locations is how to control the usage to those in need.

As many have mentioned, a person with a mobility issue should not be required to "wave a flag" that identifies their problem. However, if you don't have them "wave a flag" how do you control the non-mobility impaired who try to get away with using a Segway such as is outlined in the reference articles? After all, you can't ask them to get off and walk or you are opening yourself up to a lawsuit.

This is a very tricky issue and has to be handled / managed carefully.

Steven

[Desert_Seg]

Originally Posted by GlennO

This looks like the perfect place for a Segway rental business!

Segways are banned on the LV strip

Originally Posted by GlennO

I think that this is good because it puts the Segway on the same level as wheelchairs - as long as they don't abuse them and take advantage of their situation.

True, but the referenced articles who how quickly people will abuse the system

Originally Posted by GlennO

What this calls for are national disabled ID's/placards, that would be stuck on a wheelchair/Segway/whatever - to show that the rider is legally disabled, and uses (whatever) device to get around.

Yes, this would solve some of the problem but the law states that there can be no requirement to "wave a flag" identifying that you are impaired.

Steven

[dale@thecoys.net]

Originally Posted by Desert_Seg

...
True, but the referenced articles who how quickly people will abuse the system
...
Steven

Part of the issue is quality of life. I'm not officially "disabled", and neither is my wife. But a scooter would definitely improve my quality of life when visiting Las Vegas. So would a Segway, if it were legal.

In many circumstances, our Segways improve our quality of life. Entirely aside from being a lot of fun, we can (for example) easily cruise the Albuquerque Balloon Fiesta balloon field for several hours - which we could not do easily without the Segways.

In my opinion, it would be impractical for professionals (doctors or whatever) to "prescribe" the set of circumstances where the various types of devices would be appropriate (i.e., not abusing the system) for each individual - not to mention that the individual's condition might change on a daily basis (even with mild disease).

In my opinion, drawing a bright line between "disabled" and "not disabled" is unrealistic.

There are lots of different problems here, and the right answer to one problem seems sure to be the wrong answer for a related problem.

That's why I suggested that Alan define the "problem", and specify the meaning of "disability" in the context of the discussion.

[Sven]

Setting aside the issue of who "should" be using scooters, wheel chairs, or Segways, let's not make disability, or more specifically mobility impairment, a fuzzy concept when it isn't. I can't walk for more than a few yards before pain forces me to stop, nothing fuzzy about that. My orthopedic doc says I'm medically impaired in that regard, again nothing unambiquous. Perhaps the larger issue is why it is becoming socially acceptable for a nation of fat-asses to seek new ways to ovoid physical exersion.

[Desert_Seg]

Originally Posted by Sven

...Perhaps the larger issue is why it is becoming socially acceptable for a nation of fat-asses to seek new ways to ovoid physical exersion.

It hasn't necessarily become socially acceptable, it's become an issue for folks to ignore and, hence, let the problem escalate. Questions:

How many of you will approach an apparently able-bodied person who has parked in a handicapped spot and ask them why they are parked there? (this does take tact but it can be done)

How many of you will call the police when you notice a car without handicapped plates or placards parked in a handicapped spot? (it doesn't matter if the owner appears handicapped, they MUST have the appropriate permissions)

How many of you will address violators or violations when they see them?

Little actions such as the above make a huge difference. Unfortunately, until we all realize this and take action, we are encouraging the violators to continue.

Steven

[GlennO]

Fuzzy - good word! Just because a person is in a wheelchair it doesn't mean that person is disabled, just that he/she isn't walking. That's a preconcieved concept that is incorrect. The same goes for a cane, unless the lower portion of it is painted red.

Seeing as how I don't think anybody would ban wheelchairs from running just about anywhere, how can these same groups ban other forms of transportation for the mobility-impared?

That is where any lawsuit comes in. Since there isn't any law requiring anyone to prove a disability when renting a wheelchair, then anybody can rent it. They can 'ban' Segways for able-bodied people, but if it is a mobility aid I think they are going to be in trouble.

I would not want my doctor listing everything that is wrong with me, but I think that all legallly disabled people (at least in the U.S.) have Medicare cards, so that would do for any proof of a disability. This isn't rocket science, just common sense.

Anyone want to take odds on how long this wheelchair rental place will be open for business?

Glenn