Disney Response Part II

[wwhopper]

Then it would be a natural location for SegwayfesT and other Segway related events.

I went to Disney in Florida in 1977 on Spring Break and have no desire to go back, but if I could go on my Segway, then it might be worth seeing again.

[Ronda]

Disney could protect themselves from a liability standpoint quite easily. Simply require a signed & dated waiver by each Segway glider including the understanding that any conduct while operating a Segway which is considered unsafe will result in the Segway in question being placed outside the Disney gates.

Simple enough solution, unless there is an adjenda other than safety.

[polo_pro]

Originally Posted by wwhopper

Then it would be a natural location for SegwayfesT and other Segway related events.

I went to Disney in Florida in 1977 on Spring Break and have no desire to go back, but if I could go on my Segway, then it might be worth seeing again.

Ditto...until then Legoland, San Diego Wild Animal Park, Six Flags Magic Mountain, etc will do just fine.

ps - I do like the idea of a Segfest being held at a theme park. Has anyone ever approached a theme park asking them if they want 200 segways going through their park during a weekday (when there are no crowds)? The saavy theme park would even build a media event out of the whole thing to attract more visitors that day!

[pam]

Ah, yes, there are agendas other than safety, among them loss of rental fees.
Pam

Originally Posted by Ronda

Disney could protect themselves from a liability standpoint quite easily. Simply require a signed & dated waiver by each Segway glider including the understanding that any conduct while operating a Segway which is considered unsafe will result in the Segway in question being placed outside the Disney gates.

Simple enough solution, unless there is an adjenda other than safety.

[Timezkware Tim]

Originally Posted by Ronda

Okay, if the Segway stops, then backs up if it makes contact with a pedestrian... inquiring minds want to know what happens if the Segway should run into a tree? I'm supposing one's head would become imbedded into the tree while the Segway stops and backs up, right?

Helmets are a good idea for inquiring minds like mine.

The issue you brought up is the thought behind many people's safety concerns. But this type of accident generally doesn't happen for a reason: It's not about what a machine can potentially can do, it's about what people will do.

A person can potentially run into a tree, but people don't behave that way, even though it's "possible". Segway critics only look at the raw facts like "12.5 mph" and discount the behavior of the operator.

In reality, a Segway has and extremely short stopping distance rate due to dynamic braking and the ability to quickly adjust it's own balance, so you might actually be able to stop before hitting a tree sooner on a Segway than if you were running at the same speed.

Tim

[Tarkus]

Originally Posted by pam

Ah, yes, there are agendas other than safety, among them loss of rental fees.
Pam

Thanks Pam, I not able to log on much this week so I'm sooooo happy you got right to the point.

No matter what they say it's about lost $$$$.

Be Big,
Alan

[polo_pro]

Perhaps we're going about this the wrong way. Has anyone sat down and tried to figure out how much lost "rental fee" revenue will occur if they let private segway's in Disneyland for disabled individuals? $50K/year? $100K/year?

OK, now with that number in hand, let's create a petition of segway owners (disabled and able bodied) who vow never to spend money at Disneyland until the policy is changed. How much is this? 10K/year? 100K/year?

The last step is to side step the PR folks and lawyers at Disneyland. They only come up with justification for existing policies. They rarely make the meaninful decisions. We need to send the above cost/benefit analysis to a BEAN COUN...I mean, the finance department (along with a pre-made memo where the person can type in their name and sign it before sending it around).

Then let that little piece of viral information wind its way through the whole Disney organization until it hits the laywers and PR folks from the backside! Suddenly, they'll see their whole stance on this topic be forcefully changed to our side. I predict this should all come to pass in Oct 2007.

Then we'll have the ironic experience where PR folks are seeking us out so they can make a "Bring your own Segway day" as part of a big effort to draw the media to the park. I'll try to keep the chuckling to a minimal as they give their speeches in Tomorrowland (in an attempt to rewrite history Disney style) about how they've always supported adoption of new and innovative technologies.

OPTA - Everyone should get ready for our next big challenge...being able to bring our polo mallets into the park so we can "encourage" the crowds to part as we ride through. Oh, that and a foam brick, eh? 8^) 8^) 8^)

[drmarty]

Plo,

Sorry but this has never seemed to influence them. Whether or not the issue is money, they would never acknowledge it by saying "Oh yeah, look at that, we lose 2% more by denying Segways so now we will let them in." There are too many intangible issues and it is just too complex. You seem to be expecting them to act logically.

I don't think we will be able to get them to magically just change their position by pointing out it would make them more money or it would be good PR. I keep trying to put into words my feelings. How is this? They don't want us. If we point out the financial benefit they will say it is because it has a motor. If we point out motors are OK then they will say it has 2 wheels. Or no brakes. Or goes too fast. We are merely chasing our tails while they laugh at us. I think it will be over when we drag them into court and get an order saying "You will let them in." And then it will only be over their kicking and screaming bodies.

Maybe a little help:

As I posted earlier I was doing some looking around the internet and found that the definition of a wheelchair has changed as of 1 Apr 06. It mentions wheels but does not say 3 or 4 wheels. Here is the quote: "Identification. A mechanical wheelchair is a manually operated device with wheels that is intended for medical purposes to provide mobility to persons restricted to a sitting position."

The other interesting thing is that wheelchairs are all supposed to be labelled essentially saying they have to be prescribed by a doctor, not by a guard or greeter, etc. They can't offer you one at the entrance without a doctor's evaluation. (unless they have a doctor to give his advice)

And throughout the federal rules it keeps making reference to the fact that wheelchairs are for persons "restricted to a sitting position." I think the importance of this is the narrowness of the indications for use. In a case such as the one being litigated you are having the guard trying to put a person who may have difficulty walking long distances but can stand fine into a wheelchair which is clearly not indicated for him. Every doctor would agree that we should be trying to expand the mobility of the patient, not restrict it.

The patient should be able to discuss these issues in private with his or her doctor, not with a guard at the entrance to a mall.

Marty

[polo_pro]

I wasn't expecting the decision makers at Disney to act logically. They're probably as bad as any politician at assessing risk associated with segways. That's why I put my hope in the bean count...I mean, financial department. They tend to pay attention to hard cold numbers and force the decision maker's hands.

No one's speculated how Segway INC would react if Disney was sued under ADA. Knowing how agile Disney is, I'd guess that'd pull Segway INC into any court case that looked like it might go against Disney. So whomever ends up suing Disney had better be ready to fight Segway INC too.

And if Disney has bought over 120 segways over the years, that equated to over half a million dollars of revenue for Segway INC. Trust me, Segway INC will do everything in their power to make sure Disney doesn't lose in court. Heck, they might even have a "special recall/GPS upgrade" where the person who's suing suddenly finds their segway doesn't work anymore (or at least not in Anehiem, eh?) 8^) 8^) 8^)

[Desert_Seg]

Originally Posted by drmarty

Plo,

Sorry but this has never seemed to influence them. Whether or not the issue is money, they would never acknowledge it by saying "Oh yeah, look at that, we lose 2% more by denying Segways so now we will let them in." There are too many intangible issues and it is just too complex. You seem to be expecting them to act logically.

Disney is acting logically, at least from a fiscal perspective. The potential financial liability far outweighs any potential revenue gain.

Originally Posted by drmarty

As I posted earlier I was doing some looking around the internet and found that the definition of a wheelchair has changed as of 1 Apr 06. It mentions wheels but does not say 3 or 4 wheels. Here is the quote: "Identification. A mechanical wheelchair is a manually operated device with wheels that is intended for medical purposes to provide mobility to persons restricted to a sitting position."

This precludes the Segway totally..it is not a manually operated device. However, that is the wrong argument. The argument is that the Segway is a mobility aid.

Originally Posted by drmarty

The other interesting thing is that wheelchairs are all supposed to be labelled essentially saying they have to be prescribed by a doctor, not by a guard or greeter, etc. They can't offer you one at the entrance without a doctor's evaluation. (unless they have a doctor to give his advice)

Anybody can use a wheelchair. Only a Doctor can PRESCRIBE it. That means that I, Joe BagODonuts, Joe Schmuckatelli, or any other named individual can buy one, offer one for use, or pretty much do anything they want with it but only a Doctor can PRESCRIBE it.

Originally Posted by drmarty

The patient should be able to discuss these issues in private with his or her doctor, not with a guard at the entrance to a mall.

And that's the case. If you are in a wheelchair nobody can ask you for proof that you need it. The presumption is that you do. The same cannot be said for anybody on a Segway because many able-bodied individuals also use them. However, if the person is on a Segway flying a handicapped card then there should be no questions asked.

Steven