MS and the Segway

[Tarkus]

As a Segseat user since day one, order #4, I love it.
Not so much for riding but for resting.

I'm sure you have seen these links but I'll post again anyway.

http://segwayman.blogspot.com/

http://www.digitalthreads.com/segway/

http://www.bostoncure.org:8080/index...issue=20060607

Of course feel free to join us at www.DRAFT.cc

Regards,
Alan

[Jon]

Dear Plomoh, Pam, and Alan,

Thank you very much for your kind, supportive comments and the links to relevant sites. We've a SegSeat on the way, which will hopefully completely finesse the fatigue issue for Suzan.

I'm looking forward to our gliding together!

And, to make things even more interesting, Suzan will be joining the "elite" group of Segway+service dog partners (we know of one already active Seg+pup glider) when she officially receives her service dog within a few months. In the meantime, we'll be including the Segway in the training of her pup.

Finally, I'm happy to announce that Suzan has now joined Segway Chat as "Cruizin_Suzan". I know that our community will greet her as warmly as you have supported me over the years.

Thanks for being here!
-= Jon =-

[jehemer]

Last weekend took my new i180 to a football tail gate. Took it right in the game up to the H/C parking area, or as we refered to it as "rock star seating"
Couldn't have done it without the seg. people were very comfortable around it and the segway generated a lot of conversation, wonderment and cheers of "segwaaay" from overserved coeds. Great fun and an incredible machine.
I had two guys in power scooters ask about it and both said the 5k price was reasonable compared to what a power chair cost. Pluss it gives you a little workout on the trip and much cooler.

[Agent]

Jon,

I have MS and have had my Segway for 2 1/2 years. It has been a real godsend for me. I went to school at Rice for 1 1/2 years and got around the campus great. Without the Segway, the mile plus walk would have ruined the classroom experience.

My issues are Cognitive, Fatigue, Balance and the Montel-like issues, burning in the hands and feet. While I credit Low Dose Naltrexone for helping the fatigue, the GENERATION ONE Segway is GREAT for stabilizing balance.

WARNING: I currently have an i2 in my possession while my Segway gets the software upgrade. I cannot see how someone with MS with even SLIGHT balance issues will be able to ride this without being scared and put themselves in danger.

Folks just don't underand when you cannot control balance. The LeanSteer acts like many newbies demo'ing the Generation One for the first time. Going 12.5, this newbie banlance wobble could be a wipe out.

[jehemer]

Agent;

I agree before I purchased my i180 I test glided a i2. The steering was OK for my limited mobility issues but I felt if I was to need stability it wouldn't be there and I could very easily head into the shrubs. I think there is a place for the first generation machines and I don't understand the logic of going all i2 at the drop of a hat. My dealer also noted that several customers were snapping up the i180 instead of the i2.

[bystander]

Originally Posted by jehemer

Agent;

I agree before I purchased my i180 I test glided a i2. The steering was OK for my limited mobility issues but I felt if I was to need stability it wouldn't be there and I could very easily head into the shrubs. I think there is a place for the first generation machines and I don't understand the logic of going all i2 at the drop of a hat. My dealer also noted that several customers were snapping up the i180 instead of the i2.

jehemer,

Regarding the "logic",

From many people's point of view, whether they are disabled or not, the logic may not be very apparent, or seems very twisted.

Dean Kamen spoke about this at the recent DRAFT awards dinner, and at the recent Segfest, both events which I attended.

I am reluctant to attempt to paraphrase Dean's words, but I'll give it a shot.

If the PT gets too much of a reputation as a medical assistive device, legislation will be created to regulate it. This is because medical devices are subject to closer scrutiny than ordinary consumer devices.

This will drive the cost up considerably, as many studies and revisions have to be made for years on end to gain approval.

That's the gist of what Dean said. He is not anti-disabled, but he is concerned that the PT should be treated as a consumer device and not a medical one. Not even a hint of medical applicability should be expressed when evaluating a purchase by anyone involved in the sale (salesmen, dealers, reps, or Segway, Inc.) If any individual, as an ordinary consumer, decides that they can purchase and operate a consumer device in a safe manner, that's great.

The rest of this post is my commentary, not necessarily Mr. Kamen's.

When discussing "driving the cost up", I get the idea it could be possibly as far as up to the i-bot level. This would have a huge impact on sales.

It is an ironic situation, if a consumer device becomes widely adopted by the disabled community, the consequence is to cause the people who could benefit from it the most to not be able to afford it anymore.

In a way, it's a similar situation to "Kleenex" and "Xerox". Those terms were copyrighted, but wide public use diluted the brand, and now they are not protected. If a significant fraction of PT users are disabled, (moreso than the proportion among the general population), it could draw attention of lawsuits and legislation.

Maybe the i2, appealing less to some of the disabled community, will allow the non-disabled proportion of the general population to grow at a higher rate, keeping the "balance", so there would be less legal ground to subvert the classification of the EPMAD.

I do realize that a number of folks among the disabled community see the gen2 as a side step or even a step backwards from the "universal access" concept.

I am not disabled myself, and I don't mean to annoy anyone with my comments. I'm just trying to explain my understanding of this "logic" behind creating a successor of the gen1 that is not as disabled friendly.

[pam]

Not to mention that the feds could literally shut Segway down, if they thought INC was making any sort of medical applicability claim. It took YEARS before the iBot was approved -

Pam

[Tarkus]

Originally Posted by bystander

jehemer,

Regarding the "logic",

From many people's point of view, whether they are disabled or not, the logic may not be very apparent, or seems very twisted.

Dean Kamen spoke about this at the recent DRAFT awards dinner, and at the recent Segfest, both events which I attended.

I am reluctant to attempt to paraphrase Dean's words, but I'll give it a shot.

If the PT gets too much of a reputation as a medical assertive device, legislation will be created to regulate it. This is because medical devices are subject to closer scrutiny than ordinary consumer devices.

This will drive the cost up considerably, as many studies and revisions have to be made for years on end to gain approval.

That's the gist of what Dean said. He is not anti-disabled, but he is concerned that the PT should be treated as a consumer device and not a medical one. Not even a hint of medical applicability should be expressed when evaluating a purchase by anyone involved in the sale (salesmen, dealers, reps, or Segway, Inc.) If any individual, as an ordinary consumer, decides that they can purchase and operate a consumer device in a safe manner, that's great.

The rest of this post is my commentary, not necessarily Mr. Kamen's.

When discussing "driving the cost up", I get the idea it could be possibly as far as up to the i-bot level. This would have a huge impact on sales.

It is an ironic situation, if a consumer device becomes widely adopted by the disabled community, the consequence is to cause the people who could benefit from it the most to not be able to afford it anymore.

In a way, it's a similar situation to "Kleenex" and "Xerox". Those terms were copyrighted, but wide public use diluted the brand, and now they are not protected. If a significant fraction of PT users are disabled, (moreso than the proportion among the general population), it could draw attention of lawsuits and legislation.

Maybe the i2, appealing less to some of the disabled community, will allow the non-disabled proportion of the general population to grow at a higher rate, keeping the "balance", so there would be less legal ground to subvert the classification of the EPMAD.

I do realize that a number of folks among the disabled community see the gen2 as a side step or even a step backwards from the "universal access" concept.

I am not disabled myself, and I don't mean to annoy anyone with my comments. I'm just trying to explain my understanding of this "logic" behind creating a successor of the gen1 that is not as disabled friendly.

I think you summed that up pretty nicely.

I also heard the speech twice, well a third time on the flight home, and I heard what you and every other person in the room have heard and known for years.

The Segway is not an approved medical device

Never has been ,never will be and that just the way we want it.
There are laws in place to protect the use as is, FDA approval would be a hindrance.

That speech, IMO, was aimed carefully at the marketing and selling of the product. Not the use of the end user.

Gen 2 will be worked around, I've seen a few do-it-yourself concepts that will work.

I had a chance to spend about 10 mins. with DK and one of the things we spoke about was liability.

Not matter if it's the disabled, Polo, towing things, adding on non INC products all carry a risk that if push came to shove people would be hard pressed to win in court. On that we agree. He was really more surprised at the way the Seg is being used as opposed to the original concept, transportation. Polo, Disabled, Advertising etc.

As long as a representative of INC.does not say those uses are OK.

So on this one it was "SELLER BEWARE" or the hammer may fall on INC.

It's a bit of a "love/hate" deal, did anyone else notice when a question came up about the National Park access, the speaker noted the inroads being made by DRAFT.

As far as offering both products, it just does not make sense for such a tiny company that is already struggling to find it's core market.

Pleasure to meet you at the Fest Bystander, nice looking ride you have.

Regards,
Alan

[driley]

I think that the reason there is any issue at all is because the Segway is so new and unique. Automobile companies do not need to distance themselves from the disabled community, and do in fact help with making cars work for people with disabilities.

Segway needs to establish their product as a mainstream consumer product and not have it pigeon holed as a device for the disabled. It is what is best for the company financially. That is my take on it anyways.

Devin

[Tarkus]

Originally Posted by driley

I think that the reason there is any issue at all is because the Segway is so new and unique. Automobile companies do not need to distance themselves from the disabled community, and do in fact help with making cars work for people with disabilities.

Segway needs to establish their product as a mainstream consumer product and not have it pigeon holed as a device for the disabled. It is what is best for the company financially. That is my take on it anyways.

Devin

Agreed.

I find it interesting that this idea of mobility bothers the able bodied more than the disabled.

The best way to "mainstream" the product is to sell units to the open market and get those units out where they can be seen.

The problem so far is that there are simply too few Segways in the hands of private users.

The "pigeon Hole" effect is due to poor marketing, not the use by the disabled.

Regards,
Alan