Segway vs. NEV

Karamozov · 12-27-2002, 11:21 AM

Has the Segway caused car companies to do an about face? As I read this article, my gut reaction was "Cars are boring".

http://www.latimes.com/classified/au...tos%2Dhighway1

"Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell" - Edward Abbey (Western Author)

pdantic · 12-27-2002, 11:44 AM

I won't believe that American car companies are really serious about saving energy until I see them start selling vehicles like the Smart Car (http://www.smart.com) in the US. You see these things all over the place in Europe, along with the traditional (i.e., Vespa-like) scooters. The Smart Car runs about $8,000, not that much more than a Segway HT. Of course, by the time our government is through adding safety equipment and regulatory red tape to a vehicle like this, it would probably have to sell for $20,000 for Daimler-Chrysler to make a profit!

I think Segways would do wonderfully in Europe, where walking isn't considered a crime and small, energy-efficient vehicles are the norm in most cities and towns. When I was in Sorrento, Italy last month, I saw plenty of people riding scooters through back streets like this crowded with pedestrians:

http://www.pdantic.com/italy/Italy02-1-%20031.jpg

so a much more pedestrian-friendly device like a Segway HT would be a natural addition to the modes of transportation in these beautiful towns. Not to mention that Segways would be much quieter AND wouldn't leave those delightful exhaust fumes...

*************************
Steve
PDAntic.com
*************************

BruceWright · 12-27-2002, 03:12 PM

Well ford sells the think, which is much cleaner than the smart, being electric. These are approved for american driving, but don't travel at freeway speeds. They also don't have air-bags, so I guess they got a waiver on certain safety rules because they aren't designed for freeway travel.

http://www.thinkmobility.com/homeUS.asp?TID=967714

Not sure I want to take on an suv with this thing not having airbags, the Smart either. Here's my preference:

http://www.insightcentral.net/prius.html

The toyota prius and the honda insight. Here's a great page outlining the differences and the similarities of the two best mass-produced cars sold in America. These are the footsoldiers in the war against auto pollution, and there are tons of them on the road already. I see at least one a day, more than mini coopers!

Karamozov · 12-27-2002, 03:22 PM

Are these vehicles in direct competition with Segway? Are they too much like cars for people to consider buying one?

"Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell" - Edward Abbey (Western Author)

BruceWright · 12-27-2002, 05:23 PM

Well, I would say that the prius and the insight are exactly like cars! But the good thing about them is that they are ultra-low emission cars and get 50-70 miles to the gallon. They are a great step forward in terms of energy efficiency and clean vehicles.

The think would be closer to a competitor to the segway, it being a plastic, all-electric vehicle designed for short-distance, non-freeway trips.

I think all are part of a whole strategy of cleaner transportation. All the better to choose one which fits my lifestyle (looking seriously at the prius, or the hybrid accord).

pdantic · 12-27-2002, 05:55 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by BruceWright

They also don't have air-bags, so I guess they got a waiver on certain safety rules because they aren't designed for freeway travel...Not sure I want to take on an suv with this thing not having airbags, the Smart either.

Thanks for the link! I didn't know Ford was going to start selling this in 2003 - cool! I checked and it DOES have a driver side airbag:
http://www.thinkmobility.com/specifi...&prodcode=city

I'd be interested in seeing what the price of this is going to be. Although it requires insurance, tires, etc... like a typical automobile, if it is priced in the $5000 - $8000 range it [u]could</u> affect Segway sales. It DOES have some advantages over a Segway; it's faster, it carries two people a farther distance, and you won't get soaked driving it in the rain. On the other hand, it doesn't have quite the "magic" of the Segway, nor can it be driven indoors!

It's great to see this type of vehicle is finally going to make it to market in 2003. ANYTHING that can reduce the US dependence on oil from a certain part of the world is a good thing!

BTW, I'm very aware of the Toyota Prius - the City & County of Denver has a bunch of them in their city fleet so we see 'em everywhere.

*************************
Steve
PDAntic.com
*************************

vanos · 12-27-2002, 06:59 PM

if you say cars are boring: you need to open your mind some more 4 sure since you HAVNT driven/looked at the 2003 Vw golf/borla/"jetta" TDi vehicles!!! [they hav been avaliable for a few years in this state of fuel economy- with the 03 version even better !]

my 2003 TDi (turbo direct injection diesel) Golf is easily out performs in [u]all </u>Aspects of frugality, accelerating - braking performance and safety compared to the prius, honda , etc.

and the pollution is still extremely low [has particulate trap and computer -when you smell the exhaust--> all is smells like AIR! -it is that clean !!] IE: negligable ! it is a diesel---HELLO !!

and the consumption of precious fossil fuels is MINIMAL.
im always getting 52 MPG fwy / 47.5 mpg city here in the lax area
besides the maintenence is WAY less compared to any petrol cars AND even the exotic on-the limit hybrids, which are overly complex.

IE: it is simple !

on top of all this --you dont live in gas stations either (650 miles per fill up)
all you do is oil changes and filter changes and no thing else!

The GOLF / JETTA [Borla] TDi not only
stops in a MUCH SHORTER DISTANCE from 60 mph than any of these frail eco cars
it will out accelerate,
out handle,
out brake (4 wheel discs)
and out-crash, MUCH better, than [u]any </u>of these hybrid and /or electric - ricers.
>>>>>>>> PERIOD!

all this and it is [u]suprisingly</u> LUXURIOUS and will cruise all day at 100mph effortlessly when on a LONG x-country trip.

the europeans have LONG been enjoying these PERKS for many years and now the usa is about WAKE UP to realize/notice these new era diesels are way better and have all infrastructure in place.

its a no brainer for $18,000 usd

vanos · 12-27-2002, 07:07 PM

and i forgot (LOL) the Segway will fit in it's trunk !!!!!!

BruceWright · 12-28-2002, 03:41 AM

Milage and emissions are not the same thing. The TDI volkswagen cars are among the dirtiest cars in their class, according to the EPA. Sorry there, Vanos.

Here's some quotes from a site that compares them to the Insight:

Smog-forming emissions from the TDI Beetle are about 5 times that of the 5 speed Insight, and about 50 times that of the CVT Insight

In terms of fuel efficiency, comparing mpg figures of gasoline powered vehicles with diesel powered vehicles is like comparing apples and oranges. All things being equal, a diesel powered vehicle will travel further on the same volume of fuel, as diesel oil provides more energy per volume than gasoline. As such, the Beetle & Golf's energy efficiency is even worse compared to the Insight than the figures would suggest.

Here's a link:

http://www.pirieworld.ca/~insight/compare-tdi.html

bicycledriver · 12-28-2002, 11:41 AM

Note that the NEV manufacturers have foolishly promoted regulation prohibiting NEV operation on roads based on the maximum posted speed limit of the road, in this case 35 mph. Since my residential neighborhood is boxed in by roads with maximum posted speed limits of 45 mph, I would not be able to legally drive an NEV to the nearest store under one mile away. I can, however, legally travel on these roadways by horsedrawn carriage, farm tractor, bicycle, and, of course, automobile. So why would I buy an NEV?

Steve Goodridge

12-27-2002, 11:21 AM	#1
Karamozov Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Abilene, Kansas Posts: 266	Segway vs. NEV Has the Segway caused car companies to do an about face? As I read this article, my gut reaction was "Cars are boring". http://www.latimes.com/classified/au...tos%2Dhighway1 "Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell" - Edward Abbey (Western Author)

12-27-2002, 11:44 AM	#2
pdantic Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Highlands Ranch, CO, USA. Posts: 454	I won't believe that American car companies are really serious about saving energy until I see them start selling vehicles like the Smart Car (http://www.smart.com) in the US. You see these things all over the place in Europe, along with the traditional (i.e., Vespa-like) scooters. The Smart Car runs about $8,000, not that much more than a Segway HT. Of course, by the time our government is through adding safety equipment and regulatory red tape to a vehicle like this, it would probably have to sell for $20,000 for Daimler-Chrysler to make a profit! I think Segways would do wonderfully in Europe, where walking isn't considered a crime and small, energy-efficient vehicles are the norm in most cities and towns. When I was in Sorrento, Italy last month, I saw plenty of people riding scooters through back streets like this crowded with pedestrians: http://www.pdantic.com/italy/Italy02-1-%20031.jpg so a much more pedestrian-friendly device like a Segway HT would be a natural addition to the modes of transportation in these beautiful towns. Not to mention that Segways would be much quieter AND wouldn't leave those delightful exhaust fumes... *********************** Steve PDAntic.com ***********************

12-27-2002, 03:12 PM	#3
BruceWright Advanced Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sherman Oaks (Los Angeles), California, USA. Posts: 3,296	Well ford sells the think, which is much cleaner than the smart, being electric. These are approved for american driving, but don't travel at freeway speeds. They also don't have air-bags, so I guess they got a waiver on certain safety rules because they aren't designed for freeway travel. http://www.thinkmobility.com/homeUS.asp?TID=967714 Not sure I want to take on an suv with this thing not having airbags, the Smart either. Here's my preference: http://www.insightcentral.net/prius.html The toyota prius and the honda insight. Here's a great page outlining the differences and the similarities of the two best mass-produced cars sold in America. These are the footsoldiers in the war against auto pollution, and there are tons of them on the road already. I see at least one a day, more than mini coopers!

12-27-2002, 03:22 PM	#4
Karamozov Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Abilene, Kansas Posts: 266	Are these vehicles in direct competition with Segway? Are they too much like cars for people to consider buying one? "Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell" - Edward Abbey (Western Author)

12-27-2002, 05:23 PM	#5
BruceWright Advanced Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sherman Oaks (Los Angeles), California, USA. Posts: 3,296	Well, I would say that the prius and the insight are exactly like cars! But the good thing about them is that they are ultra-low emission cars and get 50-70 miles to the gallon. They are a great step forward in terms of energy efficiency and clean vehicles. The think would be closer to a competitor to the segway, it being a plastic, all-electric vehicle designed for short-distance, non-freeway trips. I think all are part of a whole strategy of cleaner transportation. All the better to choose one which fits my lifestyle (looking seriously at the prius, or the hybrid accord).

12-27-2002, 06:59 PM	#7
vanos New Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: , , . Posts: 11	if you say cars are boring: you need to open your mind some more 4 sure since you HAVNT driven/looked at the 2003 Vw golf/borla/"jetta" TDi vehicles!!! [they hav been avaliable for a few years in this state of fuel economy- with the 03 version even better !] my 2003 TDi (turbo direct injection diesel) Golf is easily out performs in [u]all </u>Aspects of frugality, accelerating - braking performance and safety compared to the prius, honda , etc. and the pollution is still extremely low [has particulate trap and computer -when you smell the exhaust--> all is smells like AIR! -it is that clean !!] IE: negligable ! it is a diesel---HELLO !! and the consumption of precious fossil fuels is MINIMAL. im always getting 52 MPG fwy / 47.5 mpg city here in the lax area besides the maintenence is WAY less compared to any petrol cars AND even the exotic on-the limit hybrids, which are overly complex. IE: it is simple ! on top of all this --you dont live in gas stations either (650 miles per fill up) all you do is oil changes and filter changes and no thing else! The GOLF / JETTA [Borla] TDi not only stops in a MUCH SHORTER DISTANCE from 60 mph than any of these frail eco cars it will out accelerate, out handle, out brake (4 wheel discs) and out-crash, MUCH better, than [u]any </u>of these hybrid and /or electric - ricers. >>>>>>>> PERIOD! all this and it is [u]suprisingly</u> LUXURIOUS and will cruise all day at 100mph effortlessly when on a LONG x-country trip. the europeans have LONG been enjoying these PERKS for many years and now the usa is about WAKE UP to realize/notice these new era diesels are way better and have all infrastructure in place. its a no brainer for $18,000 usd

12-27-2002, 07:07 PM	#8
vanos New Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: , , . Posts: 11	and i forgot (LOL) the Segway will fit in it's trunk !!!!!!

12-28-2002, 03:41 AM	#9
BruceWright Advanced Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sherman Oaks (Los Angeles), California, USA. Posts: 3,296	Milage and emissions are not the same thing. The TDI volkswagen cars are among the dirtiest cars in their class, according to the EPA. Sorry there, Vanos. Here's some quotes from a site that compares them to the Insight: Smog-forming emissions from the TDI Beetle are about 5 times that of the 5 speed Insight, and about 50 times that of the CVT Insight In terms of fuel efficiency, comparing mpg figures of gasoline powered vehicles with diesel powered vehicles is like comparing apples and oranges. All things being equal, a diesel powered vehicle will travel further on the same volume of fuel, as diesel oil provides more energy per volume than gasoline. As such, the Beetle & Golf's energy efficiency is even worse compared to the Insight than the figures would suggest. Here's a link: http://www.pirieworld.ca/~insight/compare-tdi.html

12-28-2002, 11:41 AM	#10
bicycledriver Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: , , . Posts: 513	Note that the NEV manufacturers have foolishly promoted regulation prohibiting NEV operation on roads based on the maximum posted speed limit of the road, in this case 35 mph. Since my residential neighborhood is boxed in by roads with maximum posted speed limits of 45 mph, I would not be able to legally drive an NEV to the nearest store under one mile away. I can, however, legally travel on these roadways by horsedrawn carriage, farm tractor, bicycle, and, of course, automobile. So why would I buy an NEV? Steve Goodridge

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