people renting segways the wrong way? -bad for us?

[pt]

here's quite a bit of opinion and controversy.

-for the last 6 months, i've used my ht without any problems, complaints, incidents or anything. now because some people who rent hts and used them in a recreational park, they've caught the attention of local officials and they're making sure no one uses hts in those areas. from what i was told the complaints came when persons whom rents them rode around the park(s).

-at this park, only human powered things are allowed, now they're going to enforce it because of the rental folks. sure a bike can go faster, sure a rollerblader can too, it doesn't matter, the park now makes it clear -human powered only-. i happen to agree with that too.

-the ht, in my opinion is not a recreational vehicle, it's to get from point a to point b, the concept of renting these escapes me. sure, touring, "seeing" one before you buy are all interesting things to consider, but there's also another motive-- money. folks who rent hts are in it to make money, i can respect that (yay! capitalism) but it could be at the expense of people like me going to and from work.

-renting the ht to someone basically means that someone has -not- gone through all the training that owners have, and the level of commitment (buying a ht, going to training, etc..) is not present. i personally do not want people who haven't gone through the proper training using hts, i don't think 30 minutes of training is enough to let someone loose. maybe it is, this is just my opinion.

-maybe rentals a year from now would be better once we gain acceptance (renting obviously isn't the best way in my area) right now it's forcing all sorts of decisions and i fear i have some fighting to do, and right now it's because of people who are buying hts and renting them.

here's an article about some renting that got me thinking:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/busine..._segway27.html

i'm likely to change my mind, i'm curious what you folks think...this is how i feel this hour, on this this day.

cheers,
pt




======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

[BruceWright]

Here's my thoughts. I haven't formed an opinion on this, but I do have some devil's advocate thoughts.

1. Aren't these really the same objections that Sidewalk activits have made? The "how do we know that the average person on a Segway can be safe? If the average person renting a Segway isn't safe, why have Segways?" Trusting strangers to be safe on Segways.

2. People rent cars, horses, trucks, campers, trailers, motorcycles, etc. Those are for money too (yay capitalism).

3. These are probably non red-keyers. Does that change the situation?

4. If someone gets hurt by a Segway rider, the rider and the rental company will get sued. Possibly the marketplace will decide if 1/2 hour is enough training for renters. I can picture that anti-Segway activists may flock to gliding areas to provoke an accident for profit's sake.


Anything bad that happens will be bad for private Segway owners, for sure.

On the other hand, if it turns out to be okay, well, it's good for Segways. These firms need to stress safety, because it's in our interests, too.

-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream

[gus]

Hi PT,

The only "human powered" park ordinance may be due to the fact that many park and bike trails use Federal TEA-21 funds that are restricted to "non-motorized" projects. The rentals simply brought the Segways to the attention of Park Management who may be afraid of loosing Federal funding. It would've happened eventually as the Segway population increases.

The funny thing is that TEA-21 funding restrictions were originally placed to alleviate air pollution. If you look at the FHWA postings you will see that electric wheelchairs AND electric bikes can be allowed on TEA-21 funded trails without disqualifying a project for additional federal funding. The only limitation is that electric bikes weight less than 100 pounds and have a top speed of less than 20 mph (these are of course well within Segway limits).

Sadly, the Federal Highways Administration does not mandate that park authorities ALLOW electric vehicles. It just states that funding will not be imperiled if electric bikes (that meet the criteria) are allowed. Therefore many park authorities simply ban ALL electric motorized vehicles (in addition to non electric) and that way they do not need to worry if the vehicles are compliant or not.

Most people strolling/jogging/skating through the park are not aware of TEA-21 mandates / restrictions / or spirit. They simply see posted signs that read "No Motorized Vehicles" and report Segway users as people violating the law.
(Even though they would not report an electric wheelchair user).

I see this as unfair myself since park and bike trails are wider and safer than sidewalks and Segways are much less intrusive than bikes and many human powered recreational vehicles.

The federal highways exceptions do not mention Segways since Segways were not available when the law was drafted. This is plainly a case where Segways fully comply with the "spirit" of the law but are too new to be included in the "letter" of the law.

I find this very frustrating since I would love to use my Segway on some wonderful bike trails near my home and can't.

My 2 cents.

Gus

[pt]

bruce-

those are all great points, i thought about those as i typed up that post (and was going to start out in devil advocate mode as well). i'm really not sure what i think...but that said-

-sidewalks are not recreational parks.
-in my area some officials are now working to regulate the ht because of people who rent them, right or wrong -that- is the reason. it's not because of a private owner.
-i personally do not think 30 minutes is enough training.

cheers,
pt



======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

[terryp]

pt -

I saw that article first thing this morning, and noticed that Parks & Recreation apparently isn't up to date on the EPAMD legislation. I've emailed one of the legislators responsible, as well as the director of Parks & Recreation about the misinformation, and intend to contact the P.I. too. Don't want anyone who read the article and sees me gliding the trail to think I'm doing so illegally.

I haven't made up my mind on the rental businesses yet, but if they cause any negative publicity that impacts the rest of us, it will make up my mind quickly.

Practicing Safe Segs in Seattle

[GyroGo]

pt,

Segway is both a serious transportation solution AND a recreational vehicle. While we have so far seen the rental market in the USA focus on the recreation market, it is an incorrect assumption that rental will not help solve problems for commuters. We have seen the Keolis press release from Segway and I know of at least one similar plan in the US to solve the "last mile" commute.

Additionally, as I have stated before, I feel strongly about the rights of both people who wish to rent for their use and rent to others. Saying that owners need to be protected from renters behavior is treating renters as some sort of underclass. People should have the rights to use the Segway in the economical manner of their choice. Owners are not more deserving of the freedom to choose a Segway solution than a renter. It reminds me of the time when only property owners had a right to vote.


. . SegCenter.com . .
StirlingInfo StirlingChat

[RAG1247]

imo, the primary problem with rental of segways (and I am not sure I am totally opposed to such rentals) is the greatly increased scrutiny and focus which becomes immediately directed towards segways. If one or two, or 5 people have a segway in a given area they are somehwat anonymous. If for example someone starts renting 20 units on ft lauderdale beach, segways will become noticed far quicker, and with such notice the chance (or need) for some municipality to investigate and possibly enact rules or look to restrict segway use.

pt: as far as the 30 minutes of instruction is concerned, you may not be familiar with the length of hands on instruction provided by segway. As an early winner you may have been given more time, but my training (actual hands on with black key only) was longer than 30 minutes but not by much (Brooster can confirm my memory).

Let's face it, most of us became experienced on our own after receipt. we received the bare basics at segway, with a small amount of hands on use.

I think that a slow roll out is one of LLC's plans to avoid large numbers of users in a given area overnight which might result in more regulation.

Richard
Ft. Lauderdale
[img=left]http://www.sonyguy.com/stars_rag2.gif[/img=left] If you can’t change the people around you, change the people around you

[pt]

richard-

owners still had more time than 30 minutes, video, the manuals, etc... and when you get a segway ht, your first experiences are in your area- not in the center of a busy area and in a recreational park (like this example).

cheers,
pt



======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

[pt]

gyro-

i'm not sure how i feel yet, but so far:

-the parks dept have had complaints about people who rent hts, riding them in the park(s).
-the parks dept have now "regulated" the ht out of the park(s). they always were not allowed, now it's crystal clear.
-the city is now looking at regulating the ht in other areas specifically because of rentals.
-an article has some negative things in it about ht because of rentals.

if the rentals were a "last mile" solution and that was happening here that would be a different discussion, but it's not. these are rentals for non-transportation needs. maybe that will change, but for now this is what is going on.

i'm saying...segway rentals might not be good for most of us, here is some evidence. i'm curious what others think.

cheers,
pt



======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

[dexter]

>>owners still had more time than 30 minutes, video, the manuals, etc... and when you get a segway ht, your first experiences are in your area- not in the center of a busy area and in a recreational park (like this example).

Yes. And most of us, I think, started very slowly and locally on our Segways, and worked up confidence to be able to ride them safely and comfortably at faster speeds, over greater terrain, and over larger distances.

The difference is we know we have a lifetime of Segging ahead of us, and we've made the big investment to make it worth our time to work our way up slowly. To keep our riding experience safe and to keep our Segways safe (because we own them!)

If, OTOH, we were given an opportunity to pay for a short period of time, (renting one for a half hour or two hours or whatever) wouldn't the natural instinct be to ride them as "hard" as possible? Not necessarily to be irresponsible with them, you'd still want to feel safe, but with so much less to lose, that fine line that lets you judge how fast you can go sure would be in a different place in space. Much more potential for accidents IMO.

The Segway has a strange learning curve. Like Othello "A Minute To Learn, A Lifetime To Master". That 30 minute demo/training certainly got you over the hump of learning to get on and off and the basic functions of riding... but how long did it take each person here to feel like they were really comfortable enough with it? Comfortable enough to feel safe to hop on one anywhere and ride safely?

I'm not saying that renters would be intentionally reckless, just that their mindset would be different having rented a short amount of time on it. And I think just the fact of them being available for rental sort of implies that "no experience" is necessary to master the Segway past that 30 minute training, and I for one think that is a very unrealistic idea.

I'd be happier if they rented them "for fun" rather than for touring a park. Let the renters ride around in a secure area. Give them a ticket to punch or something, after a certain amount of riding, they can "graduate" to a second tier and have an opportunity to rent them for "exploring". If people ask about the people riding around in the park, that's not available to the general public... but if you want to try a Segway you can rent one and try it our in our Segging area for a half-hour.


Dave C.
me: www.idexter.com
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