Entrepreneur challenges Key West Segway ban - KeysNet

[JohnG]

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Entrepreneur challenges Key West Segway ban
KeysNet, Florida - 10 hours ago
By SEAN KINNEY Al Danley, who operates Segway rental companies in Boston and Orlando, has brought his service to the Southernmost City -- despite a city ...


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Source: Google News

[Tarkus]

Disturbing. This guy wants to pretend that "everybody" has a mobility issue to sell tours.

Be Big,
AMAC

[Bob.Kerns]

Originally Posted by Tarkus

Disturbing. This guy wants to pretend that "everybody" has a mobility issue to sell tours.

Be Big,
AMAC

That stuck in my craw, too.

Still, he does have a point -- there is a spectrum of mobility from above-average to zero, and it's not a very clear line. One way to accommodate people with disabilities is to allow anyone to use a Segway.

Another would be to use the DMV criteria.

Beyond that, you're pretty much stuck with making up a line yourself.

[Edit: The ADA doesn't allow the public accommodation or governmental body to make it up themselves, but they can certainly accept a person's declaration. If they're in a gray area, they can decide for themselves. While an accommodation could in theory challenge whether someone has a genuine disability, I can't see how that would ever be a good move, unless defending in a lawsuit where settlement isn't a good option].

[Tarkus]

I'm the "poster boy"for invisible disabilities, until I walk.
But when I read:

"Everyone should have the right to have improved mobility," Danley said. "The Segway really does provide that. There are some people who want to enjoy the island but can't walk six miles around the island ... but they can get themselves trained on a Segway."

"It's a mobility assistive device," he said. "Everyone has a mobility need. What is a mobility impairment? Who should decide that? I know I'm not qualified to decide who has a mobility issue."



I get worried, The guy is useing 6 miles as his benchmark...6 miles, thats out of hand. Then followed by the "EVERYBODY..." comment.

He wants to make money and circumvent the laws by claiming everyone has a mobility problem. Our opposition lives for guys like that.

I agree that there is a fine line but 6 miles. If I could walk a 1/2 mile I would scrap my Segway.

Be Big,
Alan

[Bob.Kerns]

Originally Posted by Tarkus

I'm the "poster boy"for invisible disabilities, until I walk.
But when I read:

"Everyone should have the right to have improved mobility," Danley said. "The Segway really does provide that. There are some people who want to enjoy the island but can't walk six miles around the island ... but they can get themselves trained on a Segway."

"It's a mobility assistive device," he said. "Everyone has a mobility need. What is a mobility impairment? Who should decide that? I know I'm not qualified to decide who has a mobility issue."



I get worried, The guy is useing 6 miles as his benchmark...6 miles, thats out of hand. Then followed by the "EVERYBODY..." comment.

He wants to make money and circumvent the laws by claiming everyone has a mobility problem. Our opposition lives for guys like that.

I agree that there is a fine line but 6 miles. If I could walk a 1/2 mile I would scrap my Segway.

Be Big,
Alan

Agreed! And I believe there's an example in the ADA FAQ on the DOJ site that gives an example, saying that not being able to talk a mile or two isn't a "substantial limitation".

When I say he has a point, I don't mean to say I agree with him! Not at all -- I'm creeped out, in fact!

But his beef is with the local government, and he's right that they don't get to make the rules, etc.

I'm hoping that it was more of a slip-of-the-tongue, than an actual plan to pass of people as disabled. Sort of "Look at all the things that are wrong with this policy", not really, "Look, I'm going to exploit this confusion!".

But it certainly read like the latter.

[KSagal]

I try to be very careful about claiming mobility issues that do not really exist...

I have posted on this forum and other places everything from disdain to condemnation for people who claim a disability to take advantage of parking spaces, or some other weak and abusive reason...

But there is also the fact of a mobility device. I am far more mobile, and my range increases when I am on a bicycle. Is that not a mobility device for those who can use it?

I know people who use a stick when they walk from the kitchen to the bathroom. I know others who use a stick when they hike in the woods. I know many people who use a stick in every variation from there...

Is a stick a mobility assistance device? It surely can be, but most people use it for exactly the same thing, even if they are hiking 10 miles up a mountain. Therefore, it is an assistance device, regardless of who uses it, including young healthy hikers...

I believe a segway is indeed a mobility device, for anyone who uses it. Where it comes to point, however is at what point do most people need, or what point do reasonable people declare that if needed, then the person is disabled...

Most would agree that the unwillingness (or inability) to walk 6 miles is far too far for any reasonable declaration of the 'need' for a mobility device.

However, anyone short of a marathon runner will find their mobility enhanced by a segway, at the 6 mile mark.

To use Alan's example, if he could just walk a 1/2 mile, but not farther, does that mean he should be prohibited from a 6 mile tour he may otherwise want to take? How about if he could walk 2 miles, but not 6?

I have also posted many times that able bodied ( or relatively so) people should be very careful about riding in the wake of the path cut by those with disabilities, and the ADA. I believe it is clearly wrong, and that the segway itself is smart transportation, and can and should stand on its own merit. The problem is that people are prone to take the path of least resistance... Many may think that calling for ADA protections is that easier path...

I choose not to use it, but cannot entirely dismiss everything this guy has argued... If he has a reasonable path to air his arguments before an unbiased government, then this is wrong. If he has no such path, because of bias, laziness, or stupidity. (Ignorance does not fit, as it is easily fixed by education, and these city council may choose not to educate themselves...) then this tactic may be more understandable...

I do not think I can endorse it, but I would be willing to hear more about what he has been up against.

[Bill Seright]

Originally Posted by KSagal

But there is also the fact of a mobility device. I am far more mobile, and my range increases when I am on a bicycle. Is that not a mobility device for those who can use it?

I had thought the ADA's failure to make any type of list of "approved" mobility devices was to get around just that sort of thing. If the legislature of a state believed enough people used a bicycle as a personal assisted mobility device then yes the state could make it a mobility device. The same with a skateboard. When Eric was doing his research into the ADA when it looked like he was going to be fighting with Barnes and Noble what he seemed to get out of it was that there was no federal "approved" device listing so that states could if they wanted to make a bicycle or a skateboard or suction cups on the knees and hands disabled mobility devices if they wanted to.

Bill Seright

[Ftmyersbill]

We enjoyed the Segway rental in Key West had a blast and now we are hooked how can we buy two?

Anyone have used ones?

Jim

[Boston Gliders]

Well lets go on the record. As most of you that have met me know I will not allow any to step on someone else. It kills me that the City would deny someone access to use the Sidewalk when there is a State law that provides that exact measure. The City would not move one inch, the issue does come down to someones right to choose their mode of assistive device. My issue is should the device be on the street or sidewalk and when I have people telling me no you are not welcome in either location Street or Sidewalk then its time to put on the gloves and go at it.

The idea that the city would try to deny everyone and then they hide behind the cloak of we are not able to accommodate you since we don't meet the required space on the sidewalk for ADA access then you will not be able to use this device here. Also since we can regulate all streets over 25 mph you can be on the street either.

I did not bring it to a ADA issue the City did, worse is I have only heard to issues from them. (1) I was not here when this law was put in place. (2) We already have enough toys running around here.

These people don't seem to have a moral bone in their body. I know if I was a city official and I was told of a law that violated peoples rights of access I would work to change it.

So please don't hate I have heard allot of things from other people I don't agree with but I always remain positive toward the public about the overall cause and need for acceptance.

Would we not all agree a Segway PT is Electric Personal Mobility Assisting Device? And in such that is what I stated.


Al Danley
Just keeping the Segway life option open for everyone.

[Bob.Kerns]

Originally Posted by Boston Gliders

Well lets go on the record. As most of you that have met me know I will not allow any to step on someone else. It kills me that the City would deny someone access to use the Sidewalk when there is a State law that provides that exact measure. The City would not move one inch, the issue does come down to someones right to choose their mode of assistive device. My issue is should the device be on the street or sidewalk and when I have people telling me no you are not welcome in either location Street or Sidewalk then its time to put on the gloves and go at it.

The idea that the city would try to deny everyone and then they hide behind the cloak of we are not able to accommodate you since we don't meet the required space on the sidewalk for ADA access then you will not be able to use this device here. Also since we can regulate all streets over 25 mph you can be on the street either.

I did not bring it to a ADA issue the City did, worse is I have only heard to issues from them. (1) I was not here when this law was put in place. (2) We already have enough toys running around here.

These people don't seem to have a moral bone in their body. I know if I was a city official and I was told of a law that violated peoples rights of access I would work to change it.

So please don't hate I have heard allot of things from other people I don't agree with but I always remain positive toward the public about the overall cause and need for acceptance.

Would we not all agree a Segway PT is Electric Personal Mobility Assisting Device? And in such that is what I stated.


Al Danley
Just keeping the Segway life option open for everyone.

My only issue is with the statement as quoted. I realize this may have been just an unfortunate choice of words open to being taken out of context.

If you're fighting for the city to comply with the ADA access rules, then I'll cheer you on. If you're fighting for general access on grounds of reasonableness and common sense, I'll cheer you on on that one, too.

It gets sticky when you try to talk about both at once, even if you don't intend to conflate the issue. It ends up weakening both arguments. And talking both in the same conversation with a reporter is likely to make a real mess of things.

I don't know your intentions or actions -- it was the statement as it appeared in the article that creeped me out. Please don't take that as pre-judging you.

One of the things that annoys me about modern journalism is its over-emphasis on quotes, which often substitute for facts, analysis, thinking, and real reporting.

So welcome -- I'd love hear what you have to say directly. Even if we don't end up agreeing, we all benefit from dialog.