SegwayChat
Home . Old Gallery

Go Back   SegwayChat > Other Topics > General Discussion

Notices

General Discussion Miscellaneous topics and for general social, non-Segway discussions.

Old 09-06-2006, 10:39 AM   #21
glen_d
Member
glen_d is a jewel in the roughglen_d is a jewel in the roughglen_d is a jewel in the roughglen_d is a jewel in the rough
 
glen_d's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Anchorage, AK, USA.
Posts: 213
5 yr Member HT/PT Owner
Default Lighten Up

Haven't any of you ever done anything foolish and survived? I have, but judging by many of your righteous comments, many of you have not.

Glen
glen_d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2006, 10:57 AM   #22
Sal
Enjoys a well balanced glide
Sal has a reputation beyond reputeSal has a reputation beyond reputeSal has a reputation beyond reputeSal has a reputation beyond reputeSal has a reputation beyond reputeSal has a reputation beyond reputeSal has a reputation beyond reputeSal has a reputation beyond reputeSal has a reputation beyond reputeSal has a reputation beyond reputeSal has a reputation beyond repute
 
Sal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 3,422
5 yr Member HT/PT Owner SegwayFest Attendee
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by glen_d
Haven't any of you ever done anything foolish and survived? I have, but judging by many of your righteous comments, many of you have not.

Glen
Well... doing something foolish autonomously is one thing.. but to have one's parents encourage it is another matter altogether.

-Sal
__________________
If every value is negotiable upon circumstance, we have no true values. (Anon?)
Sal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2006, 11:03 AM   #23
Tarkus
Senior Member
Tarkus is a jewel in the roughTarkus is a jewel in the roughTarkus is a jewel in the rough
 
Tarkus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach, FL/ Mantoloking NJ
Posts: 2,081
5 yr Member HT/PT Owner SegwayFest Attendee
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal
... if that video showed that child fall and get hurt, it would likely be portrayed as the Segway's fault!

-Sal
You just said it all Sal.

I thank God every day that Segways cost what they do or this type crap would be all over the sidwalks.

Alan
__________________
***************************************
Messages from Alan Maccini and are produced utilizing voice recognition software. We apologize for any errors .


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Tarkus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2006, 11:44 AM   #24
polo_pro
Advanced Member
polo_pro is a glorious beacon of lightpolo_pro is a glorious beacon of lightpolo_pro is a glorious beacon of lightpolo_pro is a glorious beacon of lightpolo_pro is a glorious beacon of light
 
polo_pro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA.
Posts: 2,608
5 yr Member Segway Polo Player
Default Exploring and pushing the limits

Now I know I'm going to be criticized for my below stance. Someone's either going to respond after reading only a few sentences ignoring my overall point as described in later sentence OR quote a few phrases out of context to make my position seem extreme or unrealistic. And to save pundits from having to post some typical response, I'll answer the two obvious questions with "yes, I have kids" and "no, they've never been seriously hurt as we tried things". Finally, I'll state that I'd never let my kids or anyone do anything on a segway that might cause it to "catch air"!

Part of parenting is letting your child take risks (under your watchful supervision so that you can intervene at any time to prevent a catastrophe). I think our country (USA) has lost touch with the fact that childhood is SUPPOSE to involve nicks and bumps.

Kids come up with wild ideas, and they don't have the good judgement to know when things have become too risky. But when a child who's exploring possibilities says, "Hey, I like segways and I like trampolines...let's do them together to see if we have more than twice the fun," we as parents SHOULD seriously consider their request for two reasons. First, the child may be onto something new and grand (like surfing with a kite pulling you)! But second, you never want your child to stop bringing his ideas to you...the worst scenario is where (s)he sneaks off and covertly attempts the stunt.

Upon getting the request, I feel we as parents should do everything in our power to help them do it SAFELY. (I readily admit some things can never be done safely....maybe that's the case with trampolines and segways.) The parent should experiment with the feat/stunt carefully considering all the ways things could go wrong AND explain to the child throughout the experiment that the outcome might be a ban on doing it even if the parent is trying it right then and there.

If circumstances can be changed to make the activity SAFE (perhaps with close supervision, etc) then I think it's time for the child to be allowed to try out their idea with the stipulation that they must always have things set up the same way (ie. parental supervision, etc.) if it's attempted in the future.

In the case of a segway on a trampoline, I'd probably demonstrate to the child what a segway does when it's in balance mode and completely lifted up of the ground (probably taking two adults to do this). The child would see the wheels spin up outrageously fast making a scary noise. I might even set it back down on the ground before the wheels spin down to show the child how uncontrollable the segway becomes. Then I'd point out that all the same thing is going to happen on the trampoline when you bounce. If my child still thought it was a good idea, I might even get up there and as carefully as possible show them how it gets out of control...but only if my child didn't have the attitude of "oh, dad can't do anything right and I'll show him how to do it!" The last thing you do is try to find something comparable in the child's eyes that they will feel looks as dangerous as this segway-trampoline activity is. Finally, on occasion, I've had to pull the parenting trump card out of "well, wait till you're 18 to do this...but try to postpone it even a bit longer till you're no longer elligible for a Darwin award". 8^) 8^) 8^)

ps - I will readily admit that not all parents have good judgement (or lack basic caution/common sense) nor do all kids obey rules. I haven't had much trouble with this in my family. As my kids become teenagers (and I get older) maybe this will become more of a problem!
polo_pro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2006, 12:39 PM   #25
sholloway
Member
sholloway will become famous soon enoughsholloway will become famous soon enough
 
sholloway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, .
Posts: 901
5 yr Member
Default

If they were wearing helmets and there were parents standing all around the trampoline and there were pillows over the bars..... THEN.... this would still be a stupid idea. I get your point, but we are discussing This video. In this video there is no such idea as your's being played out. Your idea has valid points and makes some sense, this video is untamed stupidity.
__________________
Scott Holloway

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

404.993.6364
sholloway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2006, 12:43 PM   #26
KSagal
Glides a lot, talks more...
KSagal has much to be proud ofKSagal has much to be proud ofKSagal has much to be proud ofKSagal has much to be proud ofKSagal has much to be proud ofKSagal has much to be proud ofKSagal has much to be proud ofKSagal has much to be proud ofKSagal has much to be proud of
 
KSagal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Pelham, NH, USA.
Posts: 10,356
5 yr Member HT/PT Owner SegwayFest Attendee
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sombody
So Karl-

What effect do you think an industrial strength gyroscope attached to a skydiver somewhare might have on his flight - if any. Would it add any stabilization- or maybe take some of the fun out.

rick
I believe that a gyroscope has many functions and properties, but the way we use the concept of a gyroscope is similar to the properties that portions of our inner ear do for determining balance and "up from down". A gyroscope does this for a computer, and our inner ear does it for our brain...

If I have the concept of your "gyroscope" correct, then it is not needed. A person uses their own sense of "balance" and has no need for gyroscopic stabilization while in freefall. A person is traveling (thanks to gravitational pull) at speeds in excess of 100 miles per hour thru the air, and by deflecting that air off their body, they can control a great deal of movements.

It is not realistic to compare a freefalling skydiver to a person who has tumbled out of control. That concept is only for those who have not jumped, as it is hard to hold onto it with that much airspeed. THis is not to say that skydiving is not a hard learned skill, it is. Students tumble all the time when learning their craft. I suppose your gyroscope could be compared to training wheels, but it would be like training wheels on a Harley. As soon as you figure out how to make it go, the wheels become more of a restriction than an assistant.

Now, if you were speaking of a gyroscope as a portion of a navigational system for gliding or flying around, that may be an interesting path to explore, but the range of a parachute is still limited and always traveling toward the ground at some point, so casual side trips are not often available between the plane and the landing zone. They are available to some degree, but not as "Gee, lets go over there and see what is up, then come back here and land" kind of trips...

This is kind of off topic. I'll happily continue it, but we should go the appropriate forum.

As far as the guy and the kids on the trampoline. I have now witnessed the video, and am fine with my preconceptions. This guy is a fool, and has put his kid in unnecessary risk.

Now, I do not say that lightly. I have been told on this forum that I am an irresponsible parent for having my children on the platform of my E-167 with me. Others have been called irresponsible for towing their children in trailers and wagons with their segways.

I do not wear a helmet, but my kids are required to when on the seg with me. They have not yet been invited to try the seg alone, they ride with me. My 6 year old is tall, and weighs about 60 pounds. I suspect it will not be too long before his first, well controlled solo will happen.

Where I have a problem with the video is not the seg on the trampoline. It is the kid on the seg with no protective gear, clearly more than a hand's length away from aid.

Others have mentioned that childhood involves bumps and bruises. That is true, especially if you encourage your children to explore the limits of there world, as I do. That is not the same as showing no respect for reasonable precautions. If those kids had helmets and knee pads and wrist protectors, I would have thought their dad a mere fool, not too far from me. Since he did not insist on those things for his kids, for me, the scale tips to irresponsible.

Now, everyone sets those scale to their own values. I know lots of skydivers who did not stop jumping just because they had kids. I will take it up again when my kids are off to college. Those who have different values are not wrong, but are not making the same value calls that I make that is all.

Where everyone makes the mark for what is a good parenting practice and what is not is so personal and changes daily with me. I will allow my kids some room on some days that I do not allow on others. Some of it is based on external situations, some of it is just on that 'gut' feeling that we have to listen to sometimes...

So, Go ahead, play the fool. I have done so for decades, and loved every minute of it. But, never forget that if you are the dad, you NEED to be the DAD, and your kids deserve it.

One final illustrative story. When my first born son learned to walk up steps, I was always behind him. It was the rule. He was about 18 or 20 months old, he had been walking for a while (Before 11 months) but he had just learned to walk up the stairs and not crawl up...

He had a habbit of climbing about 3/4 the way up, and then turn and jump into my arms. I am talking about a real leap....of faith. I knew that he never looked first. He just knew his dad was there, and would launch. As quickly as I could, I set out to break him of this habbit, as I knew it would eventually come to pass that I would miss the catch, for some reason. (Imagine a 20 year old, launching and crushing his poor ole' dad) Anyway, I eventually convinced him that he should not do this thing, unless he looked me in the eye first...

My story is about this. What nice life it is, to have dad there, so that we don't have to look. That is a great place to live. I think that all kids deserve to live there. In my opinion, if one of those kids on that seg on that trampoline needed to leap, or started to fall, that dad had set it up to not be able to be there. THAT is why I call him irresponsible.
__________________
Karl Ian Sagal

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"Well done is better than well said." (Ben Franklin)
Bene factum melior bene dictum

Proud past President of SEG America and member of the First Premier Segway Enthusiasts Group and subsequent ones as well.
KSagal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2006, 01:45 PM   #27
glen_d
Member
glen_d is a jewel in the roughglen_d is a jewel in the roughglen_d is a jewel in the roughglen_d is a jewel in the rough
 
glen_d's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Anchorage, AK, USA.
Posts: 213
5 yr Member HT/PT Owner
Default

The video shows a parent attending to a child taking a risk by doing something previously unknown. If you listen to the parent, he coaches the child on what to do, limiting the behavior on the trampoline. As it turns out in the video, the parent's estimate of a favorable outcome and the actual result were coincident. Good for him. Perhaps his child will learn something from the incident and not take truly foolish risks.

I think most of the respondents that find the parent's actions irresponsible are concerned not so much for the child's welfare as for their own. They fear that if the child were to be hurt (and he was not!), that such a result would reflect poorly on the Segway and somehow lessen their chance of enjoying their Segway in the future. It's only natural to be concerned for your own welfare, but let's not mistake that as concern for someone else's child or moral outrage.

Thank goodness we all don't get to decide how this parent raises his child or how you raise yours.

Glen
glen_d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2006, 02:33 PM   #28
sholloway
Member
sholloway will become famous soon enoughsholloway will become famous soon enough
 
sholloway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, .
Posts: 901
5 yr Member
Default

Glen, the parent tells the child to ride near the edge and then tells the child to let go with his hands. Which of these endearing comments do you label "limiting the behavior"? I am concerned with the safety of the kids in the video, I am not concerned with the rep of the Segway.
__________________
Scott Holloway

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

404.993.6364
sholloway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2006, 04:41 PM   #29
glen_d
Member
glen_d is a jewel in the roughglen_d is a jewel in the roughglen_d is a jewel in the roughglen_d is a jewel in the rough
 
glen_d's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Anchorage, AK, USA.
Posts: 213
5 yr Member HT/PT Owner
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sholloway
I am concerned with the safety of the kids in the video, I am not concerned with the rep of the Segway.
The video does not portray a hypothetical situation. You have not been burdened with making an accurate prediction of future events.

How could you possibly be concerned for the safety of the child in the video when the safe outcome is already known? The child was not injured in the video.

Perhaps you are concerned with what might have happened, not what actually happened. Controlling other people's actions for fear of what might happen is quite a different proposition, isn't it?

Glen
glen_d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2006, 05:05 PM   #30
TheRonster
Junior Member
TheRonster has a little shameless behaviour in the past
 
TheRonster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Grandville, Michigan, USA
Posts: 36
5 yr Member
Default RE How possibly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by glen_d
How could you possibly be concerned for the safety of the child in the video when the safe outcome is already known? The child was not injured in the video.
Using that kind of "logic," we should also shrink from commenting on a parent who tells his kid to shoot an arrow straight up in the air. If nothing bad happens on videotape of this experiment, it would be OUTRAGEOUS for anyone to say "Hey, that's irresponsible ...."

After all, the outcome is known. The child wasn't injured on tape. The arrow came down next to him instead of into his skull.

That kind of "logic" and a bit of video editing could be used to prove that Russian roulette is a safe thing to do with a revolver, and only a busybody control freak would say "Hey ...."

What could possibly go wrong, eh?

Executive summary: Sheesh!
TheRonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:51 PM.
Copyright © 2002-2023 SegwayChat.org.
All rights reserved. Not affiliated with Segway Inc.

FreshBlue vBulletin skin by
VayaDesign
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SegwayChat Archive