Disney Access??

[Tarkus]

I used both a 3 and 4 wheel Segway to gain access and to be totally honest the extra wheels will not work at Disney.

Period.

Sorry, that's just the facts. I fooled the little but that won't work with Disney.
They are "dug in" to their policy, as illegal as it may be.


http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery...s/DSCF0001.JPG

The top of the photo shows the 4 "Wheel Setup".

We will work through education and maybe a little political pressure, we will see.

Be Big,
Alan

[Desert_Seg]

Alan,

Couldn't see the the extra wheels in the picture. However, my point was more from a legal standpoint.

My understanding of the ADA (and I admit that I might not be as well versed in it as you) is that so long as reasonable measures are made to accommodate a person with disabilities the venue / institution can impose certain guidelines. Therefore, my understanding would be that so long as Disney provides you with an alternative form of mobility then they can ask that you park your Segway, which is a two-wheeled vehicle something that is completely banned in their parks. BTW, if they try to charge for the use of their alternative form then they are most definitely breaking the law.

2. In the letter they sent they mention that all two-wheeled devices are banned and, therefore, the Segway is banned. Are three-wheeled vehicles banned? No. Therefore, adding an extra wheel to the Segway makes it compliant with their regulations and they have no legal stance to ban it.

Yes, they can still say "we aren't going to let you in on that thing" but as soon as they do that, even if they offer you an alternate form of mobility they are creating a class a people (mobility impaired people on a three wheeled vehicle who are not allowed access) and this is discriminatory.

Again, they may not let you in but the ruckus, fuss, and weak legal position are what you need.

Fighting the two-wheeled ban is a long battle and while you may win the law appears to be, unfortunately, on their side since they aren't necessarily violating the ADA by banning all two-wheeled vehicles.

Steven

[Tarkus]

Originally Posted by Desert_Seg

Alan,

Couldn't see the the extra wheels in the picture. However, my point was more from a legal standpoint.

My understanding of the ADA (and I admit that I might not be as well versed in it as you) is that so long as reasonable measures are made to accommodate a person with disabilities the venue / institution can impose certain guidelines. Therefore, my understanding would be that so long as Disney provides you with an alternative form of mobility then they can ask that you park your Segway, which is a two-wheeled vehicle something that is completely banned in their parks. BTW, if they try to charge for the use of their alternative form then they are most definitely breaking the law.

2. In the letter they sent they mention that all two-wheeled devices are banned and, therefore, the Segway is banned. Are three-wheeled vehicles banned? No. Therefore, adding an extra wheel to the Segway makes it compliant with their regulations and they have no legal stance to ban it.

Yes, they can still say "we aren't going to let you in on that thing" but as soon as they do that, even if they offer you an alternate form of mobility they are creating a class a people (mobility impaired people on a three wheeled vehicle who are not allowed access) and this is discriminatory.

Again, they may not let you in but the ruckus, fuss, and weak legal position are what you need.

Fighting the two-wheeled ban is a long battle and while you may win the law appears to be, unfortunately, on their side since they aren't necessarily violating the ADA by banning all two-wheeled vehicles.

Steven

I agree on much, but the wheel ban is ilegal, period and they know it.

Yes, their "alternate" device will cost you, they have charged for it and it's against the law.

ADA also states that any "Danger" a device may present must be that of the device not the operator, and that danger must be real not perceived.

It will take time, that's for sure but as I said those on The Hill find it very interesting.


Be Big,
Alan

PS-Better pic of "4th Wheel" its to the left.

http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery...s/DSCF0002.JPG

[Timezkware Tim]

Steven is correct from a legal standpoint (based on the information in this thread), but that doesn't mean Disney won't risk being sued by someone with a Segway sporting training wheels.

Tim

[Desert_Seg]

Unfortunately, the only way litigation of this type "wins" is via the bad publicity that the defendant (Disney) would garner. Their deep pockets would virtually assure either a confidential settlement or a long and protracted battle.

The plaintiff would have to be willing to a) fight the good fight and b) be willing to get their name dragged through mud if they choose not to settle. However, based the letter posted earlier the battle lines are clear and the plaintiff has a very solid defense / argument.

Steven

[drmarty]

The fact that they didn't let you in at some point in the past is not terribly relevant. What we have here is a ban and the letter stating why. What we propose then is to remove the problem. I agree they will not let us in. That is what we hope. I don't want to ride around with stupid little wheels. I want to prove they don't want Segways, period. So if they say this is the problem and we fix it and they still don't let us in that gives us a huge amount of ammo at least in our opinion. When we try to get action against them we can show that they are capricious (hmm is that the right word?) that is selecting us for no reason.

We keep hearing that SOMETHING is going on from DRAFT but see no proof of this. I am sorry and I appreciate all that anyone does, but they just keep saying something is coming. We can't say anything. Yada yada yada. So if there is something and for some reason it needs to be kept quiet then Draft should let some other people "in on it" and just ask for cooperation. We all want similar things. Maybe not the same but probably close.

I expect this is not what some want to hear but there it is.

Marty

[BillPaxton]

I know I'll get hammered for this but: They aren't violating any ADA legislation. My wife (at the time fiance) lived in Longwood (about 15 minutes from Epcot) until we married. We had annual passes and went either there or Islands of Adventure just about every week. The facts are, the ADA guarantees a "reasonable" accomodation to disabled Americans. If you approach on a Segway, they will stop you (same as if you show up with a pet, or a bike, or whatever) and tell you that it may not enter their grounds. If you choose to state that you are disabled they will (I have seen firsthand) immediately offer you a wheelchair, at no cost to disabled people (different story for non-handicapped motion deprived people such as broken leg in cast or pregnant, they must rent them) and off you go. Each and every ride / store / restaraunt is accessible and they even in most cases will wheel you to the front of the line and stop the ride for you to embark/disembark.
Everyone here realizes that the Segway is a better mobility tool and gives our disabled the ability to be upright, mobile, self-sufficient and more in control of themselves than if they were in a wheelchair. But the ADA does not guarantee you the right to use the best tool available, it just guarantees that they must provide a reasonable accomodation to you, which any ADA lawyer will tell you they absolutely do (I work for a large lawfirm that specializes in Labor law and we have discussed this a few times).
So they don't have to let you use a Seg as long as they offer a free ride in their chair. But Why don't they allow them? I speculate it is the height. Disney was built mainly for kids. Lots and lots of kids there - so much so that I will flatly refuse to go to Magic Kingdom ever again regardless of the circumstance. Like it or not, even a slow moving person of average height on a Segway is still perceived as a 300 lb giant, particularly if your vantage point comes from 4 feet from the pavement as your average child. If I were walking down a cobblestone street and what appeared to me to be a 15 foot tall metal and plastic device came at me at 6 mph, and I couldn't anticipate which way I thought it was going to turn, I would probably duck and cover, even if the operator yelled down to me that it was perfectly safe and it couldnt hurt me. That's what it must look like to a kid with his $14 ice cream cone dribbling down his arm. I think that perspective is why Disney says no.
Personally, I think on average, the majority of things that operate on two wheels do not belong in a crowded theme park. I don't think a seg is one of them, but I know I would be totally ticked if some teenager grazed my arm at 12mph as he skates by me on his blades. I get bumped enough by peds there (and yes, once I was actually knocked out of line by an inattentive electric wheelchair operator). A wheelchair may be slower and shorter, but it also doesn't cause people to stop in their tracks or knock into someone as they try to get out of the way. We've all seen that reaction, I saw it just last night as I went to get the mail and although I slowed and went from the sidewalk to the grass the peds in front of me walked in an arc through the grass on the other side of the sidewalk because they weren't familiar with my extent of control or limitations of my device.

[polo_pro]

1. Disney is being hypocritical by having guests use segways in the park as part of one of their "rides". I understand their argument about "supervision", however IMO it boxes them into a corner. By allowing the use of segway under some condition should open the door for any disabled guest to demonstrate compency and be offered "equal access". Now, this may result in Disney only changing their policy so that disabled guests on their own segway can participate in only that one "ride", but I think this is a big leap forward (down a slippery slope for Disney, eh?).

2. If DRAFT is doing something already along these lines, I see no reason that others shouldn't take their own steps in pursuing a change to Disney's policy. I for one am not disabled, and thus DRAFT doesn't necessarily look out for my interests. Thus, I should probably pursue my own legal action so that as Disney caves under DRAFTs pressure, they go one step further and allow all segway riders access to their property (perhaps under the condition that their "guides" verify our gliding abilities in tight spaces/crowds...and I wouldn't mind paying a fee for that service).

ps - One consequence that all of this may have is Disney might stop their segway "ride". I'm sure folks at Segway INC would not like to see that happen, since perhaps 10% of all sales for the last 5 years originate from Disney's segway "ride". However, as usual, Segway INC is silent on the matter, so I feel we have every reason to push ahead. Hopefully, they'll chime in before considerable expense has been spent in the courts.

OPTA - Maybe if I pursue this matter legally, Disney will try to buy me off by creating a new type of segway "ride". The Segway Polo "ride"! Of course, they'll need someone to organize, teach and even lead this...OK, maybe this is more of a OPFA (Obligatory Polo Fantasy Attempt)...I don't have a cast-member "personality". 8^) 8^) 8^)

[Timezkware Tim]

Originally Posted by BillPaxton

...Why don't they allow them? I speculate it is the height. Disney was built mainly for kids. Lots and lots of kids.

Like it or not, even a slow moving person of average height on a Segway is still perceived as a 300 lb giant, particularly if your vantage point comes from 4 feet from the pavement as your average child...

Disney imagines the worst case scenario: a 12 year old grabbing a Segway and fatally running over some toddler. They don't allow bikes, so the able bodied may be out of luck for a while, but DRAFT has a case, I'm sure they will be ready to challenge Disney at some point soon if Disney doesn't change their policy. JMO.



Tim

[BillPaxton]

Originally Posted by plo

1. Disney is being hypocritical by having guests use segways in the park as part of one of their "rides".

I disagree. The park offers four glide times for their two our ride; the hours of operation are prior to the opening of the park. The last time (9:30) has its final hour circling the World Showcase which does not open until noon. Their concern is likely from lawsuits of peds who have been struck moreso than gliders who are injured (and signed a waiver of indemnity no doubt), so if there is no one to hit there is no disparity. I think you are right that the best you could hope to get is that they would allow you to enter the park for a reduced rate (say $65 as opposed to the $85 they charge) for a two hour tour period on your own Segway, provided you check out of the park on or before the last time that their tours end.
I don't see the hypocrisy. I do see the need for a Seg Polo ride!!

But again, legally I don't thing you have a wheel to balance on.