rental idea...and seattle owners... - Page 3

pt · 06-04-2003, 01:26 PM

more great points bruce-

i would say , yep--it would be subject to how a court would define it if pushed. since states do not classify the ht as a motor vehicle, who knows. i hope that's not the outcome, resources devoted to court battles that is-- i'm pretty sure there's a solution here somewhere.

these are good exercises to prepare our talks and thinking.

for now, it's 100% intake, then we'll regroup, talk to segway and see what they suggest, etc...

cheers,
pt

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

BruceWright · 06-04-2003, 01:34 PM

Wow, great reference to the code, JohnM.

Look at the definitions. I think we fall under the "electric bicycle" part of the code, pretty strongly.

"The term ''electric bicycle'' means any bicycle or tricycle with a low-powered electric motor weighing under 100 pounds, with a top motor-powered speed not
in excess of 20 miles per hour." "

and...

Motorized vehicles may not be permitted on trails and pedestrian walkways under this section, except for -

when State or local regulations permit, electric bicycles;

-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream

pt · 06-04-2003, 01:49 PM

this is great info johnm and bruce, thanks for finding this.

electric bikes are on the burke-gilman every day, some times it's hard to tell since they look like bikes, but they're there each day.

i've seen a few dozen each weekend. i guess i'll take some pictures soon or video.

so...if that's the case, they need to allow us? or get rid of electric bikes on the trail and inspect bikes that might be motor assisted? that sounds horrible, so perhaps we can work out a solution or at least have this to talk about.

there's even a testimonal online about how someone uses their ebike on the burke:
http://www.electricvehiclesnw.com/main/testimonials.htm

it's "e. schulman"'s one.

this article states the following:
http://www.washington.edu/upass/prof..._portugal.html

"Electric bikes do not require licenses or insurance, are allowed on most bike trails including the Burke-Gilman, cruise up to 20 mph, and cost no more than what some people pay for a pedal-only bicycle".

time to find out more...

cheers,
pt

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

BruceWright · 06-04-2003, 01:58 PM

If "electric bicycle" includes things with 3 wheels, surely any two of those are non-tandem. If this is the law they use to restrict you, velcro a caster to your standing platform and call yourself an electric tricycle.

We don't fall outside the spirit of that law, which is primarily for transportation, and allows for low powered electrical two-wheelers.

-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream

pt · 06-04-2003, 02:05 PM

bruce-

this is funny and a great way to look at things too.

wayne! get ready to take some orders for a few dozen seg-on segway to electric tricycle kits!

cheers,
pt

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

BruceWright · 06-04-2003, 02:10 PM

If it came to that in discussions with the city, It would be a helpful and humorous point to illustrate. You could whip off the front valence that is velcroed on anyway, and replace it with a wheel. It wouldn't need to touch the ground to make the point.

The point being, the Segway falls squarely between the description of an electric bicycle and an electric tricycle, both of which are permitted.

-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream

wayne · 06-04-2003, 02:16 PM

I was already ahead of this. Did you see the F Carrier (front carrier) with an attached wheel.

If it takes a third wheel, why not. We can also add training wheels to the side and call it a wheelchair.

Seg-On

JohnM · 06-04-2003, 02:54 PM

I don't think you can argue that you are an electric bike on a federally funded trail and at the same time say you are an EPAMD on a city sidewalk without appearing a wee bit hypocritical.

Best to push for federal recognition. As pointed out, EPAMDs are certainly within the spirit of the existing federal law.

If the law is not ammended, I guarantee you will see some local walking/cycling groups who worked hard to get the trails built become very possessive about 'their' trails and fight you tooth and nail on this issue.

pt · 06-04-2003, 03:01 PM

johnm-

i think it's clear bruce used this as a humorous example.

right now, the goal is to stick to getting all the information and needs from the park dept / dot.

cheers,
pt

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

ftropea · 06-04-2003, 03:04 PM

Well, I've heard cyclists say their bicycles are "vehicles" - and that helps make the argument they should be entitled to all the rights and privileges of automobiles on roads. If that's the case, what are "vehicles" doing on park trails?

Regards,

Frank A. Tropea

Admin - "Keep your wheels on the ground!" - Contact Me

06-04-2003, 01:26 PM	#21
pt Advanced Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: seattle, wa, USA. Posts: 3,000	more great points bruce- i would say , yep--it would be subject to how a court would define it if pushed. since states do not classify the ht as a motor vehicle, who knows. i hope that's not the outcome, resources devoted to court battles that is-- i'm pretty sure there's a solution here somewhere. these are good exercises to prepare our talks and thinking. for now, it's 100% intake, then we'll regroup, talk to segway and see what they suggest, etc... cheers, pt ====================== segway ht journal: http://www.bookofseg.com other stuff: http://www.flashenabled.com

06-04-2003, 01:34 PM	#22
BruceWright Advanced Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sherman Oaks (Los Angeles), California, USA. Posts: 3,296	Wow, great reference to the code, JohnM. Look at the definitions. I think we fall under the "electric bicycle" part of the code, pretty strongly. "The term ''electric bicycle'' means any bicycle or tricycle with a low-powered electric motor weighing under 100 pounds, with a top motor-powered speed not in excess of 20 miles per hour." " and... Motorized vehicles may not be permitted on trails and pedestrian walkways under this section, except for - when State or local regulations permit, electric bicycles; -Bruce Wright Segway: Vehicle of Dream

06-04-2003, 01:49 PM	#23
pt Advanced Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: seattle, wa, USA. Posts: 3,000	this is great info johnm and bruce, thanks for finding this. electric bikes are on the burke-gilman every day, some times it's hard to tell since they look like bikes, but they're there each day. i've seen a few dozen each weekend. i guess i'll take some pictures soon or video. so...if that's the case, they need to allow us? or get rid of electric bikes on the trail and inspect bikes that might be motor assisted? that sounds horrible, so perhaps we can work out a solution or at least have this to talk about. there's even a testimonal online about how someone uses their ebike on the burke: http://www.electricvehiclesnw.com/main/testimonials.htm it's "e. schulman"'s one. this article states the following: http://www.washington.edu/upass/prof..._portugal.html "Electric bikes do not require licenses or insurance, are allowed on most bike trails including the Burke-Gilman, cruise up to 20 mph, and cost no more than what some people pay for a pedal-only bicycle". time to find out more... cheers, pt ====================== segway ht journal: http://www.bookofseg.com other stuff: http://www.flashenabled.com

06-04-2003, 01:58 PM	#24
BruceWright Advanced Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sherman Oaks (Los Angeles), California, USA. Posts: 3,296	If "electric bicycle" includes things with 3 wheels, surely any two of those are non-tandem. If this is the law they use to restrict you, velcro a caster to your standing platform and call yourself an electric tricycle. We don't fall outside the spirit of that law, which is primarily for transportation, and allows for low powered electrical two-wheelers. -Bruce Wright Segway: Vehicle of Dream

06-04-2003, 02:05 PM	#25
pt Advanced Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: seattle, wa, USA. Posts: 3,000	bruce- this is funny and a great way to look at things too. wayne! get ready to take some orders for a few dozen seg-on segway to electric tricycle kits! cheers, pt ====================== segway ht journal: http://www.bookofseg.com other stuff: http://www.flashenabled.com

06-04-2003, 02:10 PM	#26
BruceWright Advanced Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sherman Oaks (Los Angeles), California, USA. Posts: 3,296	If it came to that in discussions with the city, It would be a helpful and humorous point to illustrate. You could whip off the front valence that is velcroed on anyway, and replace it with a wheel. It wouldn't need to touch the ground to make the point. The point being, the Segway falls squarely between the description of an electric bicycle and an electric tricycle, both of which are permitted. -Bruce Wright Segway: Vehicle of Dream

06-04-2003, 02:16 PM	#27
wayne Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Minden, Louisiana, . Posts: 1,168	I was already ahead of this. Did you see the F Carrier (front carrier) with an attached wheel. If it takes a third wheel, why not. We can also add training wheels to the side and call it a wheelchair. Seg-On

06-04-2003, 02:54 PM	#28
JohnM Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: ManchVegas, NH Posts: 2,148	I don't think you can argue that you are an electric bike on a federally funded trail and at the same time say you are an EPAMD on a city sidewalk without appearing a wee bit hypocritical. Best to push for federal recognition. As pointed out, EPAMDs are certainly within the spirit of the existing federal law. If the law is not ammended, I guarantee you will see some local walking/cycling groups who worked hard to get the trails built become very possessive about 'their' trails and fight you tooth and nail on this issue.

06-04-2003, 03:01 PM	#29
pt Advanced Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: seattle, wa, USA. Posts: 3,000	johnm- i think it's clear bruce used this as a humorous example. right now, the goal is to stick to getting all the information and needs from the park dept / dot. cheers, pt ====================== segway ht journal: http://www.bookofseg.com other stuff: http://www.flashenabled.com

06-04-2003, 03:04 PM	#30
ftropea Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA. Posts: 1,778	Well, I've heard cyclists say their bicycles are "vehicles" - and that helps make the argument they should be entitled to all the rights and privileges of automobiles on roads. If that's the case, what are "vehicles" doing on park trails? Regards, Frank A. Tropea Admin - "Keep your wheels on the ground!" - Contact Me

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