We <dislike> Irresponsible Renters - Page 3

vpv · 06-01-2003, 05:39 PM

pt..
if your city has ban your segway because of that rental company... TOUGH!! Live with it! Get on with your life.. Get a car!.

You cannot stop a rental company rent Segways just because of your self-appointed petty rule of so-called safety... IT'S A NON-ISSUE. Segways are safe.. The market will sort it out.. rules will be in placed.. people will continue to use their Segways (rented or not).
And keep your facts to yourself... you're not God ( "I 100% think renters are more likely to mow down pedestrians")<<<---- this is an irresponsible statement!

pt · 06-01-2003, 05:47 PM

vpv-

wow, so that's how you really feel. i happen to support the park ban. i'm working with the rental places in my area to, i am not trying to stop them, nor do i plan to.

what have you done lately?

you think "the market will sort it out" no, it's all going to take hard work and effort educating people. we might make it, but it won't be because people say "tough, get one with your life, get a car".

good luck with your planned supreme court case and new laws getting passed.

yes, i 100% think renters are more likely to mow down pedestrians. you say segways are safe, i say -yes- when in the hands of properly trained people, but -no- when they are not, like the folks in canada who rent without even showing a video.

sorry you don't like the facts.

cheers,
pt

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

vpv · 06-01-2003, 06:13 PM

PT.. Just want to clarify. You mentioned on your previous posts that if your city bans the segway entirely that you'll have to get your car back and "it's something that you don't want to do" and you blame that rental company for your dilema.--this is the only reason why I say "get on with your life and get a car." It's not meant to be personal and I apologize if it was construed that way. But it really tells you something about yourself.. Maybe there's a bit of jealously out there that you or someone invested $5K on this machine vs someone investing $20 that you seemed to think that you've ended up with a dust collector..because of this ban. Welcome to the world of invesment--taking risks..your right of using the segway is no greater (or better) than the right of a renter. Both have fair use of a product and that's what matter. Your constant attack on renters/rental biz will not help your cause of getting the Segway widely acceptable.

pt · 06-01-2003, 06:21 PM

vpv-

again, you are totally off. i am working -with- the rental places in my area and trying to even work with the one in vancouver. so now you're saying i'm jealous that someone is renting? good god, you're really trying to offend me now i suppose.

you need to look at the facts and what i am trying to do, educate us, educate rental places and segway on what is currently going on.

i'll say it again, in another way-- the right of someone using the segway -is- greater (or better) than the right of a renter when they were not trained properly. i feel putting segways in busy parks and busy pedestrian areas is a bad idea, and i also feel renting to kids under 16 and not showing safety videos is not good for any of us either.

kindly skip over my messages and don't reply if you're going to insult me over and over again, thanks.

cheers,
pt

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

ftropea · 06-01-2003, 06:36 PM

vpv,

They're easy to miss, but there are tons of threads/message here about this issue. For the most part, we've been critical of two (2) rental companies. The one in pt's backyard (cause of the park ban) and the one in Canada (where they did the 15 min training - where that video was shot of Andrew face planting..)

There are other rental companies out there that seem to be doing the right thing.. or at least really trying to. There is Larry's FunTrans and Keith's NEVRland.

These discussions have helped raised awareness about the potential problems the rental biz can cause for Seggers in general. FunTrans and NEVRland have both chimed in on the discussions and have both acknowledged and agreed that this business needs to be done a better way.. and maybe their way is *the* way.

You know, I've been following the discussions and hope I reading it wrong.. but it almost seems like a few folks who aren't "living" the problem.. the bans.. or potential bans... are less concerned or indifferent to the whole rental dilemma (and other concerns), while those with this problem in their backyard, or without EPAMD laws, are more concerned and feel like they should be more proactive.

I hope this isn't a case of "Well, this doesn't really concern me - but here's my two cents."

I hope we all see the "bigger picture" here because I can honestly say I worry about bans in other cities like Sacramento, LA, Seattle, Chicago.. and to me, I feel just as passionately about your plights as I do about the Seg situation here in NY.

Regards,

Frank A. Tropea

Admin - "Keep your wheels on the ground!" - Contact Me

vpv · 06-01-2003, 06:51 PM

pt.. noone is trying to insult you in this forum (or at least i'm not)... but if you feel that way.. that's you're prerogative and you're also welcome to skip me on your responses.

Frank:
I'm aware of the issues, the video, the rental biz..etc.. and I'm no less concerned about bans than anybody else here in this forum..I live it everyday when I take the segway to an unknown territory thinking that it might not be accepted..

But in my opinion... some people in this forum have lost the even bigger picture and have pretty much made it their daily routine to bark at the wrong tree.. If that's the case then this forum is in a way a waste and not the proper place to further the vision that we all share of having the segway widely accepted...and I'm hoping that i'm wrong.

pt · 06-01-2003, 06:54 PM

vpv-

you've been insulting me for awhile now, it's okay.

i thought you said a supreme court case and new laws were the way to solve this.

maybe this forum is a waste for you since many of us are barking up the wrong tree, good luck with court cases.

acceptance takes -hard work- and tackling the hard issues like rentals, it's not going away we need to work on this now.

cheers,
pt

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

RAG1247 · 06-01-2003, 07:22 PM

As far as segway rental comments are concerned it is hard to know where to post a comments since several threads are going on, but here goes:

1. Regardless of whether the Segway population increases due to rental units or units purchased by individuals, the increased numbers of units in any given area is also going to lead to increased scrutiny by the public and municipalities.

2. While many of these rental companies are being classified as greedy and irresponsible, it remains to be seen if this is truly the case. Nevrland seems to have a good reputation but in a way they are a totally different category based on their being located in Celebration where 100+ residents have purchased units. I understand that Nevrland is looking at franchises in other areas of Florida and it will be interesting to see how this affects such areas.

3. Much mention is made of inadequate training, but let’s face it, the majority of owners, if not all, received the bulk of their training after receipt of the unit. Segway provided what amounts to 1 or 2 hours of training at best and many areas such as the use of yellow and black keys were never covered or tried by purchasers, other than possibly by the early contest winners. I also believe that the Segway training which now seems to be called orientation will eventually disappear, as far as LLC is concerned and they will rely more on manuals and videos.

4. Like it or not many of these posts seem to be saying let me do it but not others.

5. If you live in densely populated areas, growth of Segway units in that area are no doubt going to influence how you will be able to use it and may result in outright bans. If you live in rural areas (except for some areas in California, where I think the proposed bans will continue to escalate like wild fire), you probably will not experience such banning or restrictions.

6. It may be possible that LLC can help in controlling rental centers (I am sure they can), but their entire marketing effort is still in a state of flux and I expect changes from week to week as they balance the interest of Segway owners and their own business plan and goals. LLC is a small company with limited resources as far as numbers of personnel to run around and battle the huge number of municipalities and city councils throughout the country. They are responding and I think doing a good job when they can present their case, but as we have already seen in some areas, these proposed bans seem to occur overnight without any advance warning.

7. Some are emphasizing the lack of training received by renters. I suspect no amount of limited training would truly be satisfactory, since the 1 or 2 hours at LLC did not make any of us experts. Again, imo, the problem relates more to numbers of Segway units which appear instantly and not over time.

8. While we might say either renters or rental companies might be irresponsible there are examples of situations detailed in this forum by members/owners indicating that they may be somewhat less than responsible.

9. While I cherish the Segway and its use, the vast majority of individuals have no interest in owning a Segway (and in many cases could not afford such a purchase) and this includes city council members. Those people who have no interest in a Segway also have no interest in whether or not its use is banned or restricted.

We can all continue to do what we can. I have sent emails to those various councils considering a ban, but in reality, I am not sure how much help it is if the email is from someone 3000 miles away. On the other hand the involvement of everyone is necessary at their local level.

Richard
Ft. Lauderdale
[img=left]http://www.sonyguy.com/stars_rag2.gif[/img=left] If you can’t change the people around you, change the people around you

vpv · 06-01-2003, 07:52 PM

Rag:
"the problem relatea more to numbers of Segway units which appear instantly and not over time."---This problem really relates more to misinformed/misguided complainers in that particular park and not to the number of units which instantly appeared at that place.

When people complain, authorities react/ban. People who are misinformed about the Segway will complain. And authorities will react to complains regarless if there were prior agreements between authorities and Segway users.

It'd be interesting to see how people will react if 10 or more segway Owners appear instantly in one location during this 1st User conference currently being organized. If 10 or more Segway owners appear instantly in a location where complainers happen to be, they will complain and authorities will react, regardless of prior arrangement.

So it's not the issue of rental companies.

pt · 06-01-2003, 08:00 PM

vpv-

once again you're trying to confuse the issue and make a situation that -hasn't happened-.

as per MY CITY they said the issue was with the RENTALS in the park, 10 units each hour, each day, 7 days a week in a busy area. HAD they worked with the city they would have told them that. OWNERS have visited the park and told to leave and the city did not see the need to post signs and hire someone to guard the park like they are now.

you don't get it, we need TIME to get to a time and place were 10 owners actually are around before bans happen.

during the user conference there will be a BALLROOM IN A HOTEL IN A PRIVATE AREA booked and you won't see 10 segways in a busy park, and if you do it will be with permission.

hope that clears it up. the issue -was- with a rental company in my area and it -is- an issue with vancouver.

cheers,
pt

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

06-01-2003, 05:39 PM	#21
vpv Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA, . Posts: 106	pt.. if your city has ban your segway because of that rental company... TOUGH!! Live with it! Get on with your life.. Get a car!. You cannot stop a rental company rent Segways just because of your self-appointed petty rule of so-called safety... IT'S A NON-ISSUE. Segways are safe.. The market will sort it out.. rules will be in placed.. people will continue to use their Segways (rented or not). And keep your facts to yourself... you're not God ( "I 100% think renters are more likely to mow down pedestrians")<<<---- this is an irresponsible statement!

06-01-2003, 05:47 PM	#22
pt Advanced Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: seattle, wa, USA. Posts: 3,000	vpv- wow, so that's how you really feel. i happen to support the park ban. i'm working with the rental places in my area to, i am not trying to stop them, nor do i plan to. what have you done lately? you think "the market will sort it out" no, it's all going to take hard work and effort educating people. we might make it, but it won't be because people say "tough, get one with your life, get a car". good luck with your planned supreme court case and new laws getting passed. yes, i 100% think renters are more likely to mow down pedestrians. you say segways are safe, i say -yes- when in the hands of properly trained people, but -no- when they are not, like the folks in canada who rent without even showing a video. sorry you don't like the facts. cheers, pt ====================== segway ht journal: http://www.bookofseg.com other stuff: http://www.flashenabled.com

06-01-2003, 06:13 PM	#23
vpv Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA, . Posts: 106	PT.. Just want to clarify. You mentioned on your previous posts that if your city bans the segway entirely that you'll have to get your car back and "it's something that you don't want to do" and you blame that rental company for your dilema.--this is the only reason why I say "get on with your life and get a car." It's not meant to be personal and I apologize if it was construed that way. But it really tells you something about yourself.. Maybe there's a bit of jealously out there that you or someone invested $5K on this machine vs someone investing $20 that you seemed to think that you've ended up with a dust collector..because of this ban. Welcome to the world of invesment--taking risks..your right of using the segway is no greater (or better) than the right of a renter. Both have fair use of a product and that's what matter. Your constant attack on renters/rental biz will not help your cause of getting the Segway widely acceptable.

06-01-2003, 06:21 PM	#24
pt Advanced Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: seattle, wa, USA. Posts: 3,000	vpv- again, you are totally off. i am working -with- the rental places in my area and trying to even work with the one in vancouver. so now you're saying i'm jealous that someone is renting? good god, you're really trying to offend me now i suppose. you need to look at the facts and what i am trying to do, educate us, educate rental places and segway on what is currently going on. i'll say it again, in another way-- the right of someone using the segway -is- greater (or better) than the right of a renter when they were not trained properly. i feel putting segways in busy parks and busy pedestrian areas is a bad idea, and i also feel renting to kids under 16 and not showing safety videos is not good for any of us either. kindly skip over my messages and don't reply if you're going to insult me over and over again, thanks. cheers, pt ====================== segway ht journal: http://www.bookofseg.com other stuff: http://www.flashenabled.com

06-01-2003, 06:36 PM	#25
ftropea Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA. Posts: 1,778	vpv, They're easy to miss, but there are tons of threads/message here about this issue. For the most part, we've been critical of two (2) rental companies. The one in pt's backyard (cause of the park ban) and the one in Canada (where they did the 15 min training - where that video was shot of Andrew face planting..) There are other rental companies out there that seem to be doing the right thing.. or at least really trying to. There is Larry's FunTrans and Keith's NEVRland. These discussions have helped raised awareness about the potential problems the rental biz can cause for Seggers in general. FunTrans and NEVRland have both chimed in on the discussions and have both acknowledged and agreed that this business needs to be done a better way.. and maybe their way is the way. You know, I've been following the discussions and hope I reading it wrong.. but it almost seems like a few folks who aren't "living" the problem.. the bans.. or potential bans... are less concerned or indifferent to the whole rental dilemma (and other concerns), while those with this problem in their backyard, or without EPAMD laws, are more concerned and feel like they should be more proactive. I hope this isn't a case of "Well, this doesn't really concern me - but here's my two cents." I hope we all see the "bigger picture" here because I can honestly say I worry about bans in other cities like Sacramento, LA, Seattle, Chicago.. and to me, I feel just as passionately about your plights as I do about the Seg situation here in NY. Regards, Frank A. Tropea Admin - "Keep your wheels on the ground!" - Contact Me

06-01-2003, 06:51 PM	#26
vpv Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA, . Posts: 106	pt.. noone is trying to insult you in this forum (or at least i'm not)... but if you feel that way.. that's you're prerogative and you're also welcome to skip me on your responses. Frank: I'm aware of the issues, the video, the rental biz..etc.. and I'm no less concerned about bans than anybody else here in this forum..I live it everyday when I take the segway to an unknown territory thinking that it might not be accepted.. But in my opinion... some people in this forum have lost the even bigger picture and have pretty much made it their daily routine to bark at the wrong tree.. If that's the case then this forum is in a way a waste and not the proper place to further the vision that we all share of having the segway widely accepted...and I'm hoping that i'm wrong.

06-01-2003, 06:54 PM	#27
pt Advanced Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: seattle, wa, USA. Posts: 3,000	vpv- you've been insulting me for awhile now, it's okay. i thought you said a supreme court case and new laws were the way to solve this. maybe this forum is a waste for you since many of us are barking up the wrong tree, good luck with court cases. acceptance takes -hard work- and tackling the hard issues like rentals, it's not going away we need to work on this now. cheers, pt ====================== segway ht journal: http://www.bookofseg.com other stuff: http://www.flashenabled.com

06-01-2003, 07:22 PM	#28
RAG1247 Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, USA. Posts: 1,087	As far as segway rental comments are concerned it is hard to know where to post a comments since several threads are going on, but here goes: 1. Regardless of whether the Segway population increases due to rental units or units purchased by individuals, the increased numbers of units in any given area is also going to lead to increased scrutiny by the public and municipalities. 2. While many of these rental companies are being classified as greedy and irresponsible, it remains to be seen if this is truly the case. Nevrland seems to have a good reputation but in a way they are a totally different category based on their being located in Celebration where 100+ residents have purchased units. I understand that Nevrland is looking at franchises in other areas of Florida and it will be interesting to see how this affects such areas. 3. Much mention is made of inadequate training, but let’s face it, the majority of owners, if not all, received the bulk of their training after receipt of the unit. Segway provided what amounts to 1 or 2 hours of training at best and many areas such as the use of yellow and black keys were never covered or tried by purchasers, other than possibly by the early contest winners. I also believe that the Segway training which now seems to be called orientation will eventually disappear, as far as LLC is concerned and they will rely more on manuals and videos. 4. Like it or not many of these posts seem to be saying let me do it but not others. 5. If you live in densely populated areas, growth of Segway units in that area are no doubt going to influence how you will be able to use it and may result in outright bans. If you live in rural areas (except for some areas in California, where I think the proposed bans will continue to escalate like wild fire), you probably will not experience such banning or restrictions. 6. It may be possible that LLC can help in controlling rental centers (I am sure they can), but their entire marketing effort is still in a state of flux and I expect changes from week to week as they balance the interest of Segway owners and their own business plan and goals. LLC is a small company with limited resources as far as numbers of personnel to run around and battle the huge number of municipalities and city councils throughout the country. They are responding and I think doing a good job when they can present their case, but as we have already seen in some areas, these proposed bans seem to occur overnight without any advance warning. 7. Some are emphasizing the lack of training received by renters. I suspect no amount of limited training would truly be satisfactory, since the 1 or 2 hours at LLC did not make any of us experts. Again, imo, the problem relates more to numbers of Segway units which appear instantly and not over time. 8. While we might say either renters or rental companies might be irresponsible there are examples of situations detailed in this forum by members/owners indicating that they may be somewhat less than responsible. 9. While I cherish the Segway and its use, the vast majority of individuals have no interest in owning a Segway (and in many cases could not afford such a purchase) and this includes city council members. Those people who have no interest in a Segway also have no interest in whether or not its use is banned or restricted. We can all continue to do what we can. I have sent emails to those various councils considering a ban, but in reality, I am not sure how much help it is if the email is from someone 3000 miles away. On the other hand the involvement of everyone is necessary at their local level. Richard Ft. Lauderdale [img=left]http://www.sonyguy.com/stars_rag2.gif[/img=left] *If you can’t change the people around you, change the people around you*

06-01-2003, 07:52 PM	#29
vpv Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA, . Posts: 106	Rag: "the problem relatea more to numbers of Segway units which appear instantly and not over time."---This problem really relates more to misinformed/misguided complainers in that particular park and not to the number of units which instantly appeared at that place. When people complain, authorities react/ban. People who are misinformed about the Segway will complain. And authorities will react to complains regarless if there were prior agreements between authorities and Segway users. It'd be interesting to see how people will react if 10 or more segway Owners appear instantly in one location during this 1st User conference currently being organized. If 10 or more Segway owners appear instantly in a location where complainers happen to be, they will complain and authorities will react, regardless of prior arrangement. So it's not the issue of rental companies.

06-01-2003, 08:00 PM	#30
pt Advanced Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: seattle, wa, USA. Posts: 3,000	vpv- once again you're trying to confuse the issue and make a situation that -hasn't happened-. as per MY CITY they said the issue was with the RENTALS in the park, 10 units each hour, each day, 7 days a week in a busy area. HAD they worked with the city they would have told them that. OWNERS have visited the park and told to leave and the city did not see the need to post signs and hire someone to guard the park like they are now. you don't get it, we need TIME to get to a time and place were 10 owners actually are around before bans happen. during the user conference there will be a BALLROOM IN A HOTEL IN A PRIVATE AREA booked and you won't see 10 segways in a busy park, and if you do it will be with permission. hope that clears it up. the issue -was- with a rental company in my area and it -is- an issue with vancouver. cheers, pt ====================== segway ht journal: http://www.bookofseg.com other stuff: http://www.flashenabled.com

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