i rented a segway ht... - Page 3

pam · 06-01-2003, 08:01 AM

Ben, they came to the decision based on what they "think" might happen if an 83 lb machine bumps into a person. Not based on any studies or useage stats.
Unfortunate, but true.
Pam

ElectraGlide · 06-01-2003, 10:41 AM

It's much easier and cheaper for a municipality to put a BAN on the Segways than it would be to conduct a poll or safety study. They took the easy way , which is understandable and predictable , yet disappointing to all Seg users. I hope the same doesnt happen here in Florida where the Segging is very "user friendly " at this time .
Maybe we need " ambassador clubs "with riders that have some political experience to quell such happeneings in other hot spots. Is there anyone familiar with city councils and their methods of operations ?

Steve

BenBethel · 06-01-2003, 11:31 AM

Wow - why is everyone acting like such freaks!? If they allow rollerblades they should allow segways - rollerblades can be rented anywhere and are MORE dangerous. That's the only angle you need to take.

www.benbethel.com

pt · 06-01-2003, 02:57 PM

ben-

segways are more dangerous in that park than rollerblades in my opinion. and yah know what? so did all the park officials.

cheers,
pt

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

sfh1790 · 06-01-2003, 04:58 PM

I was just re-reading the Washington state law on segways, and came across this: "Persons under sixteen years of age may not operate an electic-assisted bicycle".

My memory is the Greenlake rental shop allows segway renters as young as 10 years of age, as long as they are supervised. I'm not quite sure what "supervised" means. It could mean any adult (someone 18 years old), or perhaps the rental store staff.

I think they should align with the state law in this regard, and use a minimum age limit of 16. A 10 year old on a rented segway in a high traffic area makes no sense to me.

pt is the most experienced segway rider we know of, but I'll bet even he wouldn't be fast enough to get a 10 year old out of a confrontation with an SUV.

I hope Segway, LLC brings up the age issue in any conversation with the rental store.

sh
[email protected]

pt · 06-01-2003, 05:14 PM

sh-

you are correct. there is only one reason to allow people under the age of 16 on a ht, $40 more dollars for the rental.

cheers,
pt

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

Linc2000 · 06-01-2003, 06:30 PM

Hey Folks!

Segways are Dangerous! Driving a car is one of the most dangerous things we do on a regular basis. Both of these activities require training, lots of practice and a committment to safety and caution to make them safe.

Renters of Segways at this time have little chance of maintaining the safe image that Segways currently have. In our own best self interest we should work to ban Segway rentals until such time that the general public understands what it means to ride a Segway the same way they understand what it means to drive a car. If that is unachieveable then all rental companies need to be required to carry liablity and comprehensive insurance on all the people they rent to. Of course, they will pass along the cost.

The Segway is an opportunity to achieve lower dependence on Mid-East oil. That alone may save many live. It can help keep our environment clean. More lives extended. If people get hurt by renters of Segways, attorneys will look for deep pockets to sue and Segway LLC could find that staying in business is no longer reasonable. Riding a Segway like driving a car is not a right, it is a privilege.

Let us not throw the Segway opportunity away because we are afraid to admit the Segway is dangerous if used by untrained individuals or by someone who is reckless or careless. $40 and 30 to 60 minutes of training does make a for a safe Segway operator.

We have been listening to the sage counsel of pt for some time. His words still have merit.

Lincoln

</center>

vpv · 06-01-2003, 07:15 PM

Linc:
Segways are inherently dangerous (like cars), however they're safer to operate than cars. But the danger issue is no reason to ban rental companies, otherwise we should also ban cars.

"Renters of Segways at this time have little chance of maintaining the safe image that Segways currently have." <--this is an assumptions and not a fact.

"We have been listening to the sage counsel of pt for some time. His words still have merit." <<-- i wouldn't characterize it as a sage... self-appointed maybe is what's frequently describe by some posters in this forum.

pt · 06-01-2003, 07:23 PM

vpv-

i don't have any answers, i'm not an expect and will never claim to be one, but i'm willing to ask the hard questions and spend time working with people.

i agree with linc, renters of segways at this time have little chance of maintaining the safe image that segways currently have. in fact, i have a video of a rental gone wrong. the person in the video did not get to see a safety video, they pushed the limits and made the ht fall over, the title of the video was called "andrew the segway monster" the file name was segwaycrash.wmv. the rental place demanded that andrew take the video down. the rental place in question is operating illegally according to canadian law.

facts, served up hot and fresh.

cheers,
pt

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

RAG1247 · 06-01-2003, 07:23 PM

As far as segway rental comments are concerned it is hard to know where to post a comments since several threads are going on, but here goes:

1. Regardless of whether the Segway population increases due to rental units or units purchased by individuals, the increased numbers of units in any given area is also going to lead to increased scrutiny by the public and municipalities.

2. While many of these rental companies are being classified as greedy and irresponsible, it remains to be seen if this is truly the case. Nevrland seems to have a good reputation but in a way they are a totally different category based on their being located in Celebration where 100+ residents have purchased units. I understand that Nevrland is looking at franchises in other areas of Florida and it will be interesting to see how this affects such areas.

3. Much mention is made of inadequate training, but let’s face it, the majority of owners, if not all, received the bulk of their training after receipt of the unit. Segway provided what amounts to 1 or 2 hours of training at best and many areas such as the use of yellow and black keys were never covered or tried by purchasers, other than possibly by the early contest winners. I also believe that the Segway training which now seems to be called orientation will eventually disappear, as far as LLC is concerned and they will rely more on manuals and videos.

4. Like it or not many of these posts seem to be saying let me do it but not others.

5. If you live in densely populated areas, growth of Segway units in that area are no doubt going to influence how you will be able to use it and may result in outright bans. If you live in rural areas (except for some areas in California, where I think the proposed bans will continue to escalate like wild fire), you probably will not experience such banning or restrictions.

6. It may be possible that LLC can help in controlling rental centers (I am sure they can), but their entire marketing effort is still in a state of flux and I expect changes from week to week as they balance the interest of Segway owners and their own business plan and goals. LLC is a small company with limited resources as far as numbers of personnel to run around and battle the huge number of municipalities and city councils throughout the country. They are responding and I think doing a good job when they can present their case, but as we have already seen in some areas, these proposed bans seem to occur overnight without any advance warning.

7. Some are emphasizing the lack of training received by renters. I suspect no amount of limited training would truly be satisfactory, since the 1 or 2 hours at LLC did not make any of us experts. Again, imo, the problem relates more to numbers of Segway units which appear instantly and not over time.

8. While we might say either renters or rental companies might be irresponsible there are examples of situations detailed in this forum by members/owners indicating that they may be somewhat less than responsible.

9. While I cherish the Segway and its use, the vast majority of individuals have no interest in owning a Segway (and in many cases could not afford such a purchase) and this includes city council members. Those people who have no interest in a Segway also have no interest in whether or not its use is banned or restricted.

We can all continue to do what we can. I have sent emails to those various councils considering a ban, but in reality, I am not sure how much help it is if the email is from someone 3000 miles away. On the other hand the involvement of everyone is necessary at their local level.

Richard
Ft. Lauderdale
[img=left]http://www.sonyguy.com/stars_rag2.gif[/img=left] If you can’t change the people around you, change the people around you

06-01-2003, 08:01 AM	#21
pam Last of the Early 30 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Yelm, WA Posts: 4,679	Ben, they came to the decision based on what they "think" might happen if an 83 lb machine bumps into a person. Not based on any studies or useage stats. Unfortunate, but true. Pam

06-01-2003, 10:41 AM	#22
ElectraGlide Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Boca Raton, FL, . Posts: 1,354	It's much easier and cheaper for a municipality to put a BAN on the Segways than it would be to conduct a poll or safety study. They took the easy way , which is understandable and predictable , yet disappointing to all Seg users. I hope the same doesnt happen here in Florida where the Segging is very "user friendly " at this time . Maybe we need " ambassador clubs "with riders that have some political experience to quell such happeneings in other hot spots. Is there anyone familiar with city councils and their methods of operations ? Steve

06-01-2003, 11:31 AM	#23
BenBethel Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Phoenix, Arizona, USA. Posts: 546	Wow - why is everyone acting like such freaks!? If they allow rollerblades they should allow segways - rollerblades can be rented anywhere and are MORE dangerous. That's the only angle you need to take. www.benbethel.com

06-01-2003, 02:57 PM	#24
pt Advanced Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: seattle, wa, USA. Posts: 3,000	ben- segways are more dangerous in that park than rollerblades in my opinion. and yah know what? so did all the park officials. cheers, pt ====================== segway ht journal: http://www.bookofseg.com other stuff: http://www.flashenabled.com

06-01-2003, 04:58 PM	#25
sfh1790 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Seattle, Wa, USA. Posts: 67	I was just re-reading the Washington state law on segways, and came across this: "Persons under sixteen years of age may not operate an electic-assisted bicycle". My memory is the Greenlake rental shop allows segway renters as young as 10 years of age, as long as they are supervised. I'm not quite sure what "supervised" means. It could mean any adult (someone 18 years old), or perhaps the rental store staff. I think they should align with the state law in this regard, and use a minimum age limit of 16. A 10 year old on a rented segway in a high traffic area makes no sense to me. pt is the most experienced segway rider we know of, but I'll bet even he wouldn't be fast enough to get a 10 year old out of a confrontation with an SUV. I hope Segway, LLC brings up the age issue in any conversation with the rental store. sh [email protected]

06-01-2003, 05:14 PM	#26
pt Advanced Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: seattle, wa, USA. Posts: 3,000	sh- you are correct. there is only one reason to allow people under the age of 16 on a ht, $40 more dollars for the rental. cheers, pt ====================== segway ht journal: http://www.bookofseg.com other stuff: http://www.flashenabled.com

06-01-2003, 06:30 PM	#27
Linc2000 Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: San Diego, California, USA. Posts: 396	Hey Folks! Segways are Dangerous! Driving a car is one of the most dangerous things we do on a regular basis. Both of these activities require training, lots of practice and a committment to safety and caution to make them safe. Renters of Segways at this time have little chance of maintaining the safe image that Segways currently have. In our own best self interest we should work to ban Segway rentals until such time that the general public understands what it means to ride a Segway the same way they understand what it means to drive a car. If that is unachieveable then all rental companies need to be required to carry liablity and comprehensive insurance on all the people they rent to. Of course, they will pass along the cost. The Segway is an opportunity to achieve lower dependence on Mid-East oil. That alone may save many live. It can help keep our environment clean. More lives extended. If people get hurt by renters of Segways, attorneys will look for deep pockets to sue and Segway LLC could find that staying in business is no longer reasonable. Riding a Segway like driving a car is not a right, it is a privilege. Let us not throw the Segway opportunity away because we are afraid to admit the Segway is dangerous if used by untrained individuals or by someone who is reckless or careless. $40 and 30 to 60 minutes of training does make a for a safe Segway operator. We have been listening to the sage counsel of pt for some time. His words still have merit. Lincoln <center> </center>

06-01-2003, 07:15 PM	#28
vpv Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA, . Posts: 106	Linc: Segways are inherently dangerous (like cars), however they're safer to operate than cars. But the danger issue is no reason to ban rental companies, otherwise we should also ban cars. "Renters of Segways at this time have little chance of maintaining the safe image that Segways currently have." <--this is an assumptions and not a fact. "We have been listening to the sage counsel of pt for some time. His words still have merit." <<-- i wouldn't characterize it as a sage... self-appointed maybe is what's frequently describe by some posters in this forum.

06-01-2003, 07:23 PM	#29
pt Advanced Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: seattle, wa, USA. Posts: 3,000	vpv- i don't have any answers, i'm not an expect and will never claim to be one, but i'm willing to ask the hard questions and spend time working with people. i agree with linc, renters of segways at this time have little chance of maintaining the safe image that segways currently have. in fact, i have a video of a rental gone wrong. the person in the video did not get to see a safety video, they pushed the limits and made the ht fall over, the title of the video was called "andrew the segway monster" the file name was segwaycrash.wmv. the rental place demanded that andrew take the video down. the rental place in question is operating illegally according to canadian law. facts, served up hot and fresh. cheers, pt ====================== segway ht journal: http://www.bookofseg.com other stuff: http://www.flashenabled.com

06-01-2003, 07:23 PM	#30
RAG1247 Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, USA. Posts: 1,087	As far as segway rental comments are concerned it is hard to know where to post a comments since several threads are going on, but here goes: 1. Regardless of whether the Segway population increases due to rental units or units purchased by individuals, the increased numbers of units in any given area is also going to lead to increased scrutiny by the public and municipalities. 2. While many of these rental companies are being classified as greedy and irresponsible, it remains to be seen if this is truly the case. Nevrland seems to have a good reputation but in a way they are a totally different category based on their being located in Celebration where 100+ residents have purchased units. I understand that Nevrland is looking at franchises in other areas of Florida and it will be interesting to see how this affects such areas. 3. Much mention is made of inadequate training, but let’s face it, the majority of owners, if not all, received the bulk of their training after receipt of the unit. Segway provided what amounts to 1 or 2 hours of training at best and many areas such as the use of yellow and black keys were never covered or tried by purchasers, other than possibly by the early contest winners. I also believe that the Segway training which now seems to be called orientation will eventually disappear, as far as LLC is concerned and they will rely more on manuals and videos. 4. Like it or not many of these posts seem to be saying let me do it but not others. 5. If you live in densely populated areas, growth of Segway units in that area are no doubt going to influence how you will be able to use it and may result in outright bans. If you live in rural areas (except for some areas in California, where I think the proposed bans will continue to escalate like wild fire), you probably will not experience such banning or restrictions. 6. It may be possible that LLC can help in controlling rental centers (I am sure they can), but their entire marketing effort is still in a state of flux and I expect changes from week to week as they balance the interest of Segway owners and their own business plan and goals. LLC is a small company with limited resources as far as numbers of personnel to run around and battle the huge number of municipalities and city councils throughout the country. They are responding and I think doing a good job when they can present their case, but as we have already seen in some areas, these proposed bans seem to occur overnight without any advance warning. 7. Some are emphasizing the lack of training received by renters. I suspect no amount of limited training would truly be satisfactory, since the 1 or 2 hours at LLC did not make any of us experts. Again, imo, the problem relates more to numbers of Segway units which appear instantly and not over time. 8. While we might say either renters or rental companies might be irresponsible there are examples of situations detailed in this forum by members/owners indicating that they may be somewhat less than responsible. 9. While I cherish the Segway and its use, the vast majority of individuals have no interest in owning a Segway (and in many cases could not afford such a purchase) and this includes city council members. Those people who have no interest in a Segway also have no interest in whether or not its use is banned or restricted. We can all continue to do what we can. I have sent emails to those various councils considering a ban, but in reality, I am not sure how much help it is if the email is from someone 3000 miles away. On the other hand the involvement of everyone is necessary at their local level. Richard Ft. Lauderdale [img=left]http://www.sonyguy.com/stars_rag2.gif[/img=left] *If you can’t change the people around you, change the people around you*

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