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Segway General Discussion General discussion related to any model of Segways, miniPROs, or Ninebots. Please do not post non-Segway technology posts here; use the technology forum instead.

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Old 08-06-2020, 01:33 PM   #1
miginage
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Default Got an i167 working, then it stopped.

I picked up an i167 from 2003 in perfect condition (probably saw 25 miles in its life) but the owner couldn't get it working. It had the typical red flashing light with a wrench. I swapped the batteries, unplugged/replugged the cables at the cs assembly, charged it over night and it was running. It has the NiMH batteries and when tested each side of both battery shows over 40v. After I got it running, I tried to drain the battery completely by taking a few short trips and leaving it powered on, but the battery wouldn't drain.

So of course I take it to a parking garage and start ripping around at 13mph. After about 10 minutes of this, it shows an error code and I can't get it to turn on again. Back to the flashing red with a wrench. I can't find the exact error code I saw when riding on it in the manual that has been uploaded here. It was either red/orange with a frowning face and then to the left, two verticle bars that would alternate back and forth. The charger and batteries seem to be working just fine.

I pulled the shaft out from the handlebars and noticed the coiled wires had become shredded due to age I assume, so there were exposed foil wrapped wires. I thought maybe this was shorting it out so I taped them up. I didn't do a full repair, just where it looked bad, so maybe there is still a short in there. Retaping the wires in full may be my next step, but I thought I would ask here first. Thanks for all your help.
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Old 08-07-2020, 08:01 AM   #2
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For checking out what's going on with the batteries, check out:

https://github.com/martinbogo/i2-battery-diagnostics
https://github.com/martinbogo/i2-bat...stics/issues/5

At this point, risk of corrosion for the BMS in older LifePo4 batteries is very real. For the even older NiMH batteries, I would be amazed if there is no damage.
Do you have a set of known good batteries or any thing else?
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Old 08-07-2020, 02:25 PM   #3
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Thanks for the links. The arduino is a bit over my head, but I'll look into it. I'm still thinking this is not a battery problem however. The NiMH batteries have two 36v packs on each side of both batteries. I'm reading each side of them at over 40v and they hold a strong charge. I've read the Canlas trickle charge method that was uploaded here, but the batteries are fully charged (I believe) and I don't believe there would be any room for more charge. Where it states the batteries wont charge if they dip under 42v it is referring to the lithium packs. But the NiMH have two sides of 36v each and again, they are reading at over 40v per side. I think it's more wires or something on the board, but I'm very new to this.
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Old 08-09-2020, 09:25 PM   #4
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Congrats on picking up the OG machine.

The frayed cables sitting in the control shaft base is a very common problem, it is due to the wires getting pinched when folks slide the control shaft down. At one point Segway started to address this issue with more robust connectors, but that was not until maybe 2005? You can see the more robust connectors in this photo- https://www.ebay.com/itm/Segway-HT-i...oAAOSwfvRfHaC3

Anyway, this is almost certainly your issue. My recommendation would be to buy a new set of CS wires that fit your machine if you can find them. They might be super hard to find at this point because many of them became broken and were replaced by the new design.

If you have the cash your best bet may be to buy a used handlebar and matching control shaft base.

Handlebar - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Segway-HT-i...oAAOSwfvRfHaC3

Control Shaft Base: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Segway-HT-i...QAAOSwF8JfHZW6
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Old 08-11-2020, 05:55 PM   #5
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Thanks for the thought on the new connectors/handlebars/base. I just pulled all of the old shredded rubber off the wires and electrical taped all parts of the wires fresh. Then secured everything together with zip ties. I'm very certain the foil covered wires are no longer exposed. I'm still getting the blinking red wrench.

I haven't pulled the control shaft base yet to see how those wires look, but given that they are in a stable part, I'm doubting much fraying would be going on. Any thoughts on other places to check wires? Or maybe look at the motherboard at this point? Or maybe it is a battery problem after all, but like I mentioned it was running well and holding a strong charge.
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Old 08-12-2020, 05:10 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miginage View Post

I'm still getting the blinking red wrench.
Sorry to be the bearer of sad news.

As I understand it;

1
If the mesh of those cables touches the inside of the tube, the Segway registers this as a serious error.

2
The Segway will remember this serious error.
It will not start again until the 'error latch' is cleared.
Simply removing the cause of the error, will not clear that 'error latch'.

3
It used to be a simple matter to clear that 'error latch'.
Most dealers could do it.
However Segway in their wisdom discontinued support of Gen-1 machines, thus it is no long easy to clear that 'error latch'.

4
I am unaware of any to assist you.
Sadly.

Michael
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Old 08-12-2020, 11:22 PM   #7
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I was considering it would be along these lines of a 'critical error'. Some code built into it to self protect. But if the dealers were able to fix this 'error latch' at some point, there must be a solution, no? Somebody must know. I'm thinking that maybe there is a battery on the motherboard that could be pulled off to release memory of the error mentality. I did notice the other day, which I noticed just before I got it working again, is that when I put the key in, it just beeped once, no display on the circular readout. It did that for a few key prints, and went back to the wrench. It's almost as if it is a software problem.
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Old 08-13-2020, 07:55 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miginage View Post
if the dealers were able to fix this 'error latch' at some point, there must be a solution, no? Somebody must know.

It's almost as if it is a software problem.
Yes, you are on the right track.

The Segway platform uses a robust industrial strength network protocol, not a simple PC / USB thing.
That hardware is rare and expensive.

The commands that are sent to the Segway platform over that network are robust and complex.
Nobody outside of Segway has the details, to my knowledge.

That is the entire problem.

One could argue that Segway should have released some info to the public domain, before shutting up.
However it seems that they did not.
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Old 08-14-2020, 03:14 AM   #9
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I'm pretty sure they just used I2C for all the coms.
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Old 08-14-2020, 06:48 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bottleworks View Post
I'm pretty sure they just used I2C for all the coms.
CAN Bus I think ( 99.99%, because very little is known 100% ).
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