Lure of the Yike Bike

[SegwayDan]

Originally Posted by KSagal

. . .while excess weight is a waste, all pounds are not...

I don't think there's much, if any, excess weight on the Segway PT. It's designed mainly around safety and reliability. The chassis casting seems to be the most "generous" of all the components, but shouldn't be a candidate for weight trimming, as it needs to be quite robust to endure severe poundings.

So where else could weight be trimmed? Perhaps the batteries, but only IF and when newer and better technology becomes available which may very well be lighter.

I don't see, then, that there's anywhere else to trim weight significantly, which brings us back to Karl's and my respective assertions that we simply "deal with it" via enhanced physical body strength and/or via "tools."

[Civicsman]

Originally Posted by SegwayDan

I don't think there's much, if any, excess weight on the Segway PT. It's designed mainly around safety and reliability. The chassis casting seems to be the most "generous" of all the components, but shouldn't be a candidate for weight trimming, as it needs to be quite robust to endure severe poundings.
...

I would love to see the engineering data and analysis to substantiate the opinion that there is not much, if any, excess weight on the PT.

[JohnG]

Well, I don't think anyone is going to give you company proprietary information to help you prove your point. But I can tell you that every component on the Segway PT is there for a reason, usually safety-oriented. The base is engineered the way it is for safety reasons.

There are four primary "heavy" components on the PT -- the wheels, transmissions, base, and batteries. All have been engineered to the Nth degree for safety and reliability and to be as lightweight as possible. No further reductions are possible without serious compromises in these areas, or without substantial cost increases.

[SegwayDan]

Originally Posted by JohnG

Well, I don't think anyone is going to give you company proprietary information to help you prove your point. But I can tell you that every component on the Segway PT is there for a reason, usually safety-oriented. The base is engineered the way it is for safety reasons.

There are four primary "heavy" components on the PT -- the wheels, transmissions, base, and batteries. All have been engineered to the Nth degree for safety and reliability and to be as lightweight as possible. No further reductions are possible without serious compromises in these areas, or without substantial cost increases.

Thanks, John. I find it gratifying to have my own surmise corroborated by someone who was there.

[Civicsman]

Well, I don't think anyone is going to give you company proprietary information to help you prove your point.

Thanks John, but a lot can be done with Finite Element Analysis software without getting anything whatsoever from Segway. However, I don't really need that data anyway, because I am not making any claims. You missed my point there.

However, I CAN say with some assurance that Segway does not seem to be putting much effort into optimization, either in costs or mass. The "Gen II" design has gone FIVE YEARS without any real changes, and if anyone claims that Segway's first release of Gen II resulted in a perfect implementation, then it would only demonstrate their lack of understanding of how engineering works.

[Gihgehls]

Originally Posted by JohnG

But I can tell you that every component on the Segway PT is there for a reason, usually safety-oriented.

Notice that the x2 has an extra piece of metal on the LSF compared to the i2. When asked if this extra metal was required for the x2, Doug Field replied "it sure looks cool, doesn't it?"

When asked if it provides any extra strength or rigidity, he again replied "it sure looks cool, doesn't it?"

So respectfully, John, I have to disagree with you because I've heard it straight from the horse's mouth. Also, while not significant in weight, the Segway emblem at the base of the LSF probably doesn't do much for safety nor the integrity of the machine.

[KSagal]

Wow,

A casual conversation with Doug Field, and he did not answer your inquires with "yes, that piece is absolutely necessary, or the rider will die"... I guess that proves your point... There is all kinds of wasted weight...

I bet he is ruing the day that he answered that way... Over and over in his head, 'if only I had told that guy it was something we thought was important'...

I will not speak for Doug Field or anyone else, but I am a engineer, and I have had a time or twelve, or more, where a customer may ask me a question about a machine of theirs, and if something has just been repaired, or needs to be repaired, I have been known to minimize the impact of their problem... Some clients, whom I will not lie to, also do not need to know every detail, as it serves no purpose to scare them or play up the catastrophic 'what if' scenario...

Many times they were close to loosing the production of million dollar or more machines, due to any number of problems, from small bearings to multi thousand dollar control boards, yet most of my good clients get something like, " yeah, it needed a part, we put it in, and you are 100% again."... I tell them that, because most of the time, that is really what they want to hear.

I am happy to discuss the details if asked, but the conversation in the hall kind of set of circumstances rarely gets that much detail...

Segway as a company, and as an engineering design house has always played all their cards very close to their vest... I believe that the unwillingness to disclose specific engineering strength or failure data in a conversation with a client means very little...

Of course, each person can assign their own value to both Doug Field's comments as reported by gg, and my assessment to what it means...

And just for the record, I would not glide any extended length with no emblem in front of the base of the lean steer, because without it, there is little to stop foreign debris from entering the chamber where the steering mechanism is... That would be similar in my mind to removing the rubber boot that protects many CV joints on cars, or steering or linkage knuckles... When those debris protective devices fail or rip, I remove them as well...

[PeteInLongBeach]

Well.... so much for the Yike Bike.

[Gihgehls]

Originally Posted by KSagal

Wow,

A casual conversation with Doug Field, and he did not answer your inquires with "yes, that piece is absolutely necessary, or the rider will die"... I guess that proves your point... There is all kinds of wasted weight...

I can't tell if you're being genuine or dis-genuine, but I like to assume the best in people, so thanks!

[JohnM]

Originally Posted by KSagal

I bet he is ruing the day that he answered that way... Over and over in his head, 'if only I had told that guy it was something we thought was important'...

I will not speak for Doug Field ...

But you just did.