Segway Alternative Robin M1

[Tritium]

Originally Posted by KSagal

Tritium,

I was wondering what a 'real' reverse is also. I know I can really go in reverse on my segway as easily as anything else.

The only reason it does not fall over is because the wheels are smaller than the base, and there is so little clearance. That is hardly a feature. I have seen many people use a block of wood, or something similar as a parking stand. All you need to do is take a block of wood that 1 inch less than the distance from the bottom of the batteries to the road, and bolt it to the bottom of your segway. Be sure that the length of the wood is larger than the diameter of your tires. It will severely hamper the usefulness of your segway, but you will have a similar parking stand to the robin. (Paint it black so it looks factory original)

On the built in lighting, and the portability, I agree with you. Might not be as much fun as poking fun at you as I did above, but the truth is, I think these are real enough problems that could be addressed. I have lighting on my machine, and it is very good, but it needs to be charged and managed separately, so I would prefer to use a tiny bit of the mega batteries that we already have on board. My digital lights use very little power, relatively, but still have small batteries that need to be replaced or recharged. I would rather snag a few watts from the base batteries.

Portability is another problem. I like the segway size, for the most part. But over a hundred pounds is a problem.

I have seen some exoskeleton frames that significantly enhance the strength of the wearer. I guess I'll have to invest in one of those, to ease my lifting the segway into my car...

Karl, I agree that I could have a secondary bolt on stand but I live in Arizona and here it's normal to see rocks up to 2-3" in diameter in the motorways and sidewalks so I can't sacrifice.
I don't agree with the "wheel smaller than base" part, I think it's because the unit actually allows free reversal, because otherwise you'd be on your *** in the 30* climb video.
I really think SegINC should've integrated an automated stand.

Yes I have a "Sky Ray King" and a Lux-RC "FL33" both of which require external mounts and need to be separately charged.
The Segway logo in the leansteer should be a place they put a light but instead they didn't.
There ARE aftermarket placard led lights but seriously Segway should have known.

50% of all riding I do is between 5PM and 5AM so lighting is a must.

[KSagal]

Originally Posted by Tritium

Karl, I agree that I could have a secondary bolt on stand but I live in Arizona and here it's normal to see rocks up to 2-3" in diameter in the motorways and sidewalks so I can't sacrifice.
I don't agree with the "wheel smaller than base" part, I think it's because the unit actually allows free reversal, because otherwise you'd be on your *** in the 30* climb video.
I really think SegINC should've integrated an automated stand.

Yes I have a "Sky Ray King" and a Lux-RC "FL33" both of which require external mounts and need to be separately charged.
The Segway logo in the leansteer should be a place they put a light but instead they didn't.
There ARE aftermarket placard led lights but seriously Segway should have known.

50% of all riding I do is between 5PM and 5AM so lighting is a must.

I am afraid you are clearly wrong on the tire size vs base. The base is in front of the 3 and 9 oclock on the tire. That is why you can lean it back. It extends more behind the tire than in front, which is why it is parked in the back position.

Any close look at the images will show you what I am speaking of.

A segway is purposely made so the most forward part, and the most aft part are the tires at 3 and 9 oclock. It allows for stair climbing, and curb drops. A slow curb drop is okay on a segway because of this, and is just not so on the robin. A slow curb drop of over a couple inches with a robin will put you on your face.

You say you want to buy one. When you do, you are welcome to bring this thread back to life, and affirm my statements. If you do not believe it now, that is okay.

I do not know what your term 'free reversal' means. If you mean it freewheels in reverse, that would mean you have no brakes on down hills. (Meaning that if you start up a hill, and decided not to continue, but do a slight lean back to back down the hill, you would freewheel and that would be quite dangerous)

Also, their documentation says it has regenerative brakes that gives power to the batteries, not unlike a segway. (Actually, pretty much any motor will act as a generator. IF you add electrical energy to most any motor, you will get mechanical energy. If you add mechanical energy to that same motor, you will get electrical energy.) Not all motors do this efficiently, but most all do it.

However, if there were conditions where the wheels freewheel, then this regenerative function would not work as well, and also binder brakes would need to be engaged somehow. I saw no indication of this in any of their documentation.

But we are debating the technology of a knock off of a knock off. (I still feel this is most accurately described as a knock off winglet) We do not know any of these details by first hand knowledge, but by inference and from documents from those who clearly have no problem telling lies about their own product and others.

I hope someone here that we do not suspect as being a troll does buy or gets access to one of these, and can do the side by side comparison. If I get a hold of one, I will do it, but I surely will not give them my money before I see one of these items myself. I cannot imagine giving them my money after either, but there are no absolutes in life, and of course, it will be pretty unlikely I would get access if I publish that I will not ever buy one. The motivation of those posting earlier seemed pretty clear as being on of sales over all, over fact, over truth, over decorum.

Lets all take a glide. Anywhere, any time. I still have that silly grin when on the segway...

[Tritium]

Originally Posted by KSagal

I am afraid you are clearly wrong on the tire size vs base. The base is in front of the 3 and 9 oclock on the tire. That is why you can lean it back. It extends more behind the tire than in front, which is why it is parked in the back position.

Any close look at the images will show you what I am speaking of.

A segway is purposely made so the most forward part, and the most aft part are the tires at 3 and 9 oclock. It allows for stair climbing, and curb drops. A slow curb drop is okay on a segway because of this, and is just not so on the robin. A slow curb drop of over a couple inches with a robin will put you on your face.

You say you want to buy one. When you do, you are welcome to bring this thread back to life, and affirm my statements. If you do not believe it now, that is okay.

I do not know what your term 'free reversal' means. If you mean it freewheels in reverse, that would mean you have no brakes on down hills. (Meaning that if you start up a hill, and decided not to continue, but do a slight lean back to back down the hill, you would freewheel and that would be quite dangerous)

Also, their documentation says it has regenerative brakes that gives power to the batteries, not unlike a segway. (Actually, pretty much any motor will act as a generator. IF you add electrical energy to most any motor, you will get mechanical energy. If you add mechanical energy to that same motor, you will get electrical energy.) Not all motors do this efficiently, but most all do it.

However, if there were conditions where the wheels freewheel, then this regenerative function would not work as well, and also binder brakes would need to be engaged somehow. I saw no indication of this in any of their documentation.

But we are debating the technology of a knock off of a knock off. (I still feel this is most accurately described as a knock off winglet) We do not know any of these details by first hand knowledge, but by inference and from documents from those who clearly have no problem telling lies about their own product and others.

I hope someone here that we do not suspect as being a troll does buy or gets access to one of these, and can do the side by side comparison. If I get a hold of one, I will do it, but I surely will not give them my money before I see one of these items myself. I cannot imagine giving them my money after either, but there are no absolutes in life, and of course, it will be pretty unlikely I would get access if I publish that I will not ever buy one. The motivation of those posting earlier seemed pretty clear as being on of sales over all, over fact, over truth, over decorum.

Lets all take a glide. Anywhere, any time. I still have that silly grin when on the segway...

Woah now, I'm no troll, I've been gliding since 03 and have no intention to provoke arguments or spread faulty information.

As seen in many videos, the Robin has jumped off pretty big curbs and is fine.
I never said the wheels were bigger than the unit!
I'm just saying, I think the Segway should be able to go in reverse a bit better than it currently does, like the Solowheel or Robin.
I understand the fact of this copying many patented things, however if the features on the Robin were on the Segways, I would never in my life think about buying an M1 but for $2000-$3000 it's like buying a set of batteries, it won't hurt the bank too much and it is always fun to try new items.

In the Phoenix ad for a Robin, it is said:
"
As a long time Segway rider, I enjoyed the technology, and freedom that comes with using a Segway. The problem I had was the size and weight. My P series is over 70 pounds, and my i2 is 105! Not exactly a one man job putting it in the car." So obviously some people have the same opinions.

I'm all for boycotting fakes but in this case, I can't help but really truly consider buying this M1, it's not a direct clone or fake of anything.

[KSagal]

Originally Posted by Tritium

Woah now, I'm no troll, I've been gliding since 03 and have no intention to provoke arguments or spread faulty information.

As seen in many videos, the Robin has jumped off pretty big curbs and is fine.
I never said the wheels were bigger than the unit!
I'm just saying, I think the Segway should be able to go in reverse a bit better than it currently does, like the Solowheel or Robin.
I understand the fact of this copying many patented things, however if the features on the Robin were on the Segways, I would never in my life think about buying an M1 but for $2000-$3000 it's like buying a set of batteries, it won't hurt the bank too much and it is always fun to try new items.

In the Phoenix ad for a Robin, it is said:
"
As a long time Segway rider, I enjoyed the technology, and freedom that comes with using a Segway. The problem I had was the size and weight. My P series is over 70 pounds, and my i2 is 105! Not exactly a one man job putting it in the car." So obviously some people have the same opinions.

I'm all for boycotting fakes but in this case, I can't help but really truly consider buying this M1, it's not a direct clone or fake of anything.

Woah right back at you. I was suggesting that you would be a good person to do the wheel to wheel comparison, as you are a segway user, not a troll like RobinM1. If I was unclear, I am sorry.

In post 121 you said that you did not feel the built in ability to park the machine leaning was because of wheel size. Or perhaps I was not understanding exactly what you were saying.

I have never experienced a problem in reverse on a segway, but we are all different. OF course, since a segway can spin in its own footprint, there really are not many needs to back up, and not far or fast, but again, we are all different.

I do recall at a pre-release introduction of the i2 that I was lucky enough to attend, I was using the i2 in front of Doug Field. It was in a parking structure, and I took it up the ramp to a higher level, and played around a bit. On my way back down that ramp, I met up with Doug, and he asked if I had tried a particular maneuver, which I had not. I had stopped on the ramp, and I backed up the ramp, and decided to back into a 3 point turn kind of thing, so I was backing up and turning and happened to go over a speed bump all at the same time. I then went forward, and completed the turn to continue up the ramp in forward, and on to that maneuver. Upon return, Doug did comment on the ease I seemed with the backing up, turning and dealing with multiple complex angles. He said that his team had much more problems with those types of movements.

I bring this up, because your comments are not uncommon regarding squirrelyness in reverse (see, I can make up words too). I just happen to be a back up savant. I make up for it by being inept at most every other thing.

Please do share a detailed report back to us if you do buy a Robin. I think we would all like to see something other than a sales pitch.

[Tritium]

Originally Posted by KSagal

Woah right back at you. I was suggesting that you would be a good person to do the wheel to wheel comparison, as you are a segway user, not a troll like RobinM1. If I was unclear, I am sorry.

In post 121 you said that you did not feel the built in ability to park the machine leaning was because of wheel size. Or perhaps I was not understanding exactly what you were saying.

I have never experienced a problem in reverse on a segway, but we are all different. OF course, since a segway can spin in its own footprint, there really are not many needs to back up, and not far or fast, but again, we are all different.

I do recall at a pre-release introduction of the i2 that I was lucky enough to attend, I was using the i2 in front of Doug Field. It was in a parking structure, and I took it up the ramp to a higher level, and played around a bit. On my way back down that ramp, I met up with Doug, and he asked if I had tried a particular maneuver, which I had not. I had stopped on the ramp, and I backed up the ramp, and decided to back into a 3 point turn kind of thing, so I was backing up and turning and happened to go over a speed bump all at the same time. I then went forward, and completed the turn to continue up the ramp in forward, and on to that maneuver. Upon return, Doug did comment on the ease I seemed with the backing up, turning and dealing with multiple complex angles. He said that his team had much more problems with those types of movements.

I bring this up, because your comments are not uncommon regarding squirrelyness in reverse (see, I can make up words too). I just happen to be a back up savant. I make up for it by being inept at most every other thing.

Please do share a detailed report back to us if you do buy a Robin. I think we would all like to see something other than a sales pitch.

Woah AGAIN!
Thank you for that, I was under the impression you thought I was trolling!

I'll have to look at 121 but I don't think I said that.

I have a lot of people and places I frequent with halls and places where it's pretty much impossible to turn around so backing up is my only choice, I was just hoping that Segway would improve the system so if it detected the reverse was unintentional, it would slow or stop the PT rather than shake and or turn off.

I contacted the seller in Phoenix to ask for a test ride, he responded literally 10 minutes later with a happy "Hi, yes thanks, thank you for your interest in the Robin" so if I like it I'll buy it and do a detailed review/report on it upon return home.
I will need a day to test it for accuracy and experience though.

I know I'll be one of the first in Az to have one and the first on the forum so it'll be interesting to see how they compare.

I will have my i2 speed limited to 10mph to have a fair race between them.


Each day I usually do 5 miles or more on my PT so it should give the robin a workout.

Worst that could happen is that it is a piece of #£@& and I'll buy a T3 to try next.

[Bob.Kerns]

Originally Posted by Tritium

Reverse that won't kick you off.
Example: If the Segway PT is going at almost any rate of speed in reverse, it will start shaking, if continued warning from the PT is ignored, it will safety shutoff.

I have to say, 5000 miles on my i2, and I've never experienced this. (I presume Karl and many others have even more).

I'm not saying it won't do this, but if after all this time, I've never experienced it -- is it an important limitation? Do I *want* to go backwards fast enough to trigger it?

No, for a few reasons. One is, it's just darned hard to see where you're going. And second, because the steering is backwards for proper balance when you're going in reverse. And third, because any situation narrow enough to justify not just turning around and going forward, is also narrow enough to back out of at a cautious speed.

I kind of doubt the Robin's reverse will be any more "real", but who knows. If nothing else comes of this, I hope Segway, Inc, looks at this, and sees market opportunities they've overlooked, and create a successful product of their own to sell into it.

Perhaps even licensing a few patents from Robin in the process.

[JohnG]

The technology on the Robin has many features I would want on my Segs like built in lighting, real reverse, built in parking stand, etc.

Not sure where you're seeing this, but I don't see anywhere that Robin has built-in lighting or a parking stand.

And the Segway limits your speed in reverse for a very good reason -- safety (just as your car won't do its top speed in reverse either). This is not unusual, this is called good engineering practice.

John

[Tritium]

Originally Posted by JohnG

Not sure where you're seeing this, but I don't see anywhere that Robin has built-in lighting or a parking stand.

And the Segway limits your speed in reverse for a very good reason -- safety (just as your car won't do its top speed in reverse either). This is not unusual, this is called good engineering practice.

John

I was actually wrong on the parking stand part and the reverse part.

The Robin does sit on itself, not a stand.
But it is listed to have LED lighting.

[KSagal]

Originally Posted by Tritium

I was actually wrong on the parking stand part and the reverse part.

The Robin does sit on itself, not a stand.
But it is listed to have LED lighting.

The images are all over the place. Several of them had tail lights in the back edge of the standing platform.

I saw a better video of the winglet, where the rear facing LED taillights were active to the lean steer and angle, and seemed to change to red when slowing or stopping, but otherwise were blue.

Some of the Robin sites I have found have tail lights, that are integrated to the same general location (molded into the rear of the standing platform, but closer to the center, and wedge shaped) and seem to have red lenses, so they act as reflectors, and do seem to light up, but I cannot tell when. Most do not seem to have these lights. Perhaps they were on the preproduction model and not on the current one, or visa versa.

There do seem to be nubs molded into the bottom rear edge of the case, which is what hits the ground when the machine is leaned back, so it acts as a parking method. Of course, it would also limit the downhill ability and angle, and is only available because the clearance under the machine is so small.

[Tritium]

Heading up to test tmw