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Old 08-17-2011, 08:36 AM   #51
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She went on to explain that she required this level of support, and we owed it to her.
What she said is that the country owed it to her to allow her to become a citizen, which she has been working in the courts since ~2000. Political hacks have been watching to see if the case was expedited since her nephew became president. Since you didn't hear any stories about "Obama's nepotism" on Faux News, it is clear that the case was not expedited.

First get the facts, then distort them as much as you please.
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Old 08-17-2011, 11:10 AM   #52
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What she said is that the country owed it to her to allow her to become a citizen, which she has been working in the courts since ~2000. Political hacks have been watching to see if the case was expedited since her nephew became president. Since you didn't hear any stories about "Obama's nepotism" on Faux News, it is clear that the case was not expedited.

First get the facts, then distort them as much as you please.
I agree that I am aware of no expedited schedule. She has been deported more than once, and has ignored the orders, instead using public assistance to fight the laws of the land.

And what she said was that the United States owed her the subsistence I said it owed her, as well as citizenship. I have the facts, thank you.

So I have been supporting this person who was ordered out of the country for more than a decade with public housing, public food, and public defenders, all paid for by tax dollars. She has provided nothing for her own existence, and as I said, is not alone. I know what she is taking away, what does she bring?
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Old 08-17-2011, 11:43 AM   #53
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You do know, of course, that she is not a citizen.
No, I did not. But so what? My wife is not a citizen, either. But she has worked here for 16 years, paid taxes, raised kids, volunteered in the schools, organized a Young Makers club and a newspaper club for kids, obeyed the laws, been a victim of crimes.

You DO understand, that being a citizen gives you the right to vote, serve on a jury, and mostly immunity from deportation -- but that non-citizens otherwise have the same constitutional rights, including the equal protection clause of the 14th, and are subject to the same criminal and civil justice system, enjoying both its benefits and responsibilities?

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With regard to fraud, I did mention no effort is placed on asking her about the father, nor trying to hold him accountable.
You did make that claim. I pointed out that we have an entire mechanism in place to track down deadbeat fathers and make them pay child support. You pretty much ignored everything I said on the topic. Now, you repeat the claim, with nothing new to back it up.

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Laws on the books and laws enforced are two different things. Once it becomes common practice to ignor a law, or not enforce it, the government chooses to make new laws.
Agreed, see below.

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Illegal aliens are a good example. It is illegal to hire them, but no one or rarely does anyone get caught or punished for doing it.
I don't know how rare it is -- certainly I read of a lot of companies getting caught, and I certainly have had to go to a lot of pain on getting hired to prove my citizenship.

Given that our enforcement of these laws has threatened my own employment, and my ancestors have been here far longer than there's been a USA, I'd say our enforcement isn't as lax as some rabble-rousing politicians and "news" outlets have been telling you.

Still, we're a nation of immigrants. So far as I know, ALL of my ancestors immigrated here, from Europe, or in one case, Canada. My wife is an immigrant. You offered, without even thinking about it, evidence that you're descended from immigrants, but it would have been a good bet anyway.

You'll probably come back and say you're talking about ILLEGAL immigration -- but that doesn't square with your citizenship remark above.

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Making cell phone use in cars is another good example. Most every state has laws against driving while distracted. Other laws about proper lane changes, and reckless driving. All these things are the things people do on cell phones, and the reason that state after state is now making use of cell phones in the car illegal.

If they just enforced the safe operation laws, they would not need new laws.
But if they didn't make new laws, how would legislators earn your votes?

Seriously, the incentives are in place for making new laws, and not getting rid of old ones. I'm not sure of the solution -- Sunset provisions haven't been terribly effective.

Indeed, while you may want to talk about incentives for welfare recipient, we need to take a real serious look at incentives for politicians. I think a lot more of our problems stem from dysfunctional incentives in our political system.

But to play devils' advocate, I'll point out that by making a new law specifically mentioning cell phones, they call attention to the problem. But I'd like to see some real data as to whether that really works -- and how long the effect lasts, if it does.
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Old 08-17-2011, 01:01 PM   #54
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Bob,

You quoted a bit of my comments on Obama's Aunt. The fact that she is not a citizen is not as much a factor as that she is an illegal immigrant, who has been ordered deported. She did not go, but was ordered to.

I know we are a nation of immigrants. I have never tried to hide my Grandparents arrival (on my mother's side) from the Ukraine, to escape the Progroms of the early 20th century. My father's side also came from the Ukraine, also Jewish, but I am not sure of their arrival times, I suspect around the same time.

But their trips thru Ellis Island and their immigration story does not mean that I feel we should have uncontrolled illegal immigration. I believe in a good and effective guest worker program, as well as continued legal immigration.

My primary fault placement however is on the employers, and the government employees who do not due their due diligence on employment or tax dollar give away programs. The government employees should be held accountable, and the employers who knowingly hire illegals and take advantage of the taxes not paid, and benefits not paid, should be put in jail.

I have posted that I know of a local politician who owns a restaurant that employs illegal aliens, and he does not care about being sworn to uphold the laws and is breaking them at the same time.

We need not agree here. I have made my case pretty clear several times. Some will not admit it, but there is a huge difference between being against illegal immigration and still not being against immigration.

I know for a fact that the current government in Massachusetts is anti enforcement for immigration policies. The governor has said so, and said that he has chosen not to work cooperatively with the INS (I know, old term). Our current Attorney General, the chief enforcement officer of the state, has stated that' "It is technically not illegal to be an illegal immigrant in Massachusetts".

Two county sheriffs publicly stated that they were going to work with the feds on a screening program for arrested suspects that checks for their immigration status. The local news reported that they were told their state funding was in risk as a result of bucking the Governor's policies.

Call it what you like. This is not a state in the United States. This is a Commonwealth, but often seems more like a province with a totally different type of government.
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Old 08-17-2011, 01:20 PM   #55
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My second pair of eyes advised me to lock this thread. It's getting out of hands, again.
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