i167 cold battery/platform fault.

DFDureiko · 02-19-2009, 01:54 PM

to preface, I bought a used i167 this spring from the concord dealer with an extra set of batteries, and external charger. Unit was operating fine until cold weather. granted I swapped out the batteries before taking it to FL. thinking I should swap the pair now and again. Starting having problems on cold mornings, would run 1/4 mile stick shake, flash red, shut down. Started back up and then ran ok, it was plugged in overnight during 28degree weather, outside under cover. upon starting ran 100ft, died, now nothing would start it, removed batteries (the only ones I had with me) unpluged and inspected control column. Still red wrench no start. Went to a dealer (who'll remain nameless, as I don't want to cause problems) they said it was a platform fault, they talked to segway and that segway would take care of it for FREE including shipping. I was amazed, I said are you saying they have some sort of unwritten lifetime guarentee, they said YES they stand behind their product.
Needless to say I was amazed.
I knew it was too good to be true, they called today, said segway replaced "the main board" and "cover" for free and I "should replace the charge contollers and I NEEDED Lion batteries, total $2900.00
again they said they "recommended" change the charge controller"
I had/have no intention of getting Lion's, I intended to have a set of the Nmh rebuilt anyway.
I said just send it back the charge will be $125 for diagnostics and $75 shipping.
I'm bringing my other set of batteries back to FL in a week, first I'll try them, then I'll for sure send a set to MTO for rebuild.
I'm still unsure of what Segway replaced, or why they did it for free.
at least I did find another dealer who is very knowlegeable and does repairs, and had used parts in stock.
I'm just wondering if this whole fiasco was old batteries, pushed over the edge by cold weather????
This might also sound strange, but while in FL during the winter my only storage is outside, you guys think that if I wrap a heating pad around the batteries on cold nights this will solve my problems?
Thanks for any and all advice.
I really like the seg, in fact we wanted to get another until this fiasco.
Dan

wwhopper · 02-19-2009, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFDureiko

I'm just wondering if this whole fiasco was old batteries, pushed over the edge by cold weather????
Dan

But since your machine is an I-167, there could have been some other issues with it due to its age. like moisture. And the CSB where the charger is is something that does have issues especially with moisture.

rook2218joe · 02-19-2009, 06:24 PM

I originally sent my 180 to Segway of Oakland with a similar problem, but I was using Li-Ion batteries and the unit NEVER got below 50 degrees (inside Florida garage). Unfortunately they were unable to repair it. At the present time I am talking with Dan about trying the repair a second time...other option is INC., trade-in to knowledgeable dealer who can repair it for his own use/resale while I get another machine, or buy yet another Gen. 1 Segway through the "used market". To Segway of Oakland's credit, I paid for the shipping charges to their facility, and I offerred to pay the return shipping charges.

I have heard some very similar stories about INC and their "free" repairs. Fortunately I've got enough Segways to keep riding, but INC repairs seem to have a "marginal reputation". (Particularly with "add-on" charges and diagnostic fees...for $2900 you can probably buy another unit and use the old one for spare parts. That's what I've done.

If you're interested, I have several extra Li-Ion batteries here in Florida that I would be willing to sell. I keep getting them with replacement units. Some of the batteries are still under warranty. (I'd even take your "off-board" charger as a partial trade on a pair of Li-Ions.)

You say you've found a "knowledgeable" dealer here in Florida. Where and who? (Use my private address if you don't want to make a "general post".)

Lastly, I've got a couple of "really good" Gen. 1 Segways that I would sell you for less than $2900 if you pick-up yourself.

Another possibility is that maybe we could put together some of your Segway with some of my Segways and get a working unit...depends on where you are located in Florida. I have a 170 that I call "Patch" that is the fastest, smoothest Segway in our area. On concrete pavement I've gotten up to 14 mph as measured by my GPS...and that's including my 200 + pounds.

I'm still looking for a "able dealer", not just someone who wants to ship it back to INC, somewhere within 200 miles of St. Petersburg. (By the way, I'm not complaining about any dealer locally guys. But I am looking for a referral from an "end-user".

rook2218joe · 02-19-2009, 06:27 PM

I forgot to mention, I also have a "brand new" ready to plug in CSB from a 180tha should fit directly onto your 167.

Regards.

Bob.Kerns · 02-19-2009, 06:47 PM

Just a technical note, not a dispute....

I wouldn't trust the accuracy of any GPS reading. Maybe you got it up to 14 MPH, maybe you didn't, or maybe you really made 15.2 -- you don't really know. GPS doesn't really have enough resolution to reliably give you an average speed over short distances or short times.

Although it's a good sign if your GPS indicates zero speed when you're sitting still -- it's harder for them when you're moving, and moving fixes are less accurate than stationary ones.

So if you're seriously interested in how fast you're going, you're better off measuring a known distance, and using a stop watch. It's more trouble, but it's more informative. Best would be to average repeated trials.

Big kudos, however, for stating how you measured it!

KSagal · 02-19-2009, 06:58 PM

I have a good Garmin Nuvi, which admittedly is a few years old, but if you watch it, I sometimes get speed read-outs while parked in the car.

I was under the impression that there is a lot of math, and averaging involved in speed readouts from GPS. Speed readouts from a speedometer are based on wheel revolutions, each one meaning a certain distance traveled. GPS does it the other way around, and figures the straight line distance between point a and point b, then the time it took to get from a to b, then does the math that way to determine speed.

Both have their flaws, but the wheel revolution count method is more accurate for segways...

Of course, wheel size changes will throw a revolution counter off as a different distance will be traveled per rotation, so if you play with the transmission or wheel size a lot, then the GPS will gain in relative accuracy...

emrnyc · 02-19-2009, 07:01 PM

If anyone wants I'll break out my radar gun.....
Martin

SegNerd · 02-19-2009, 07:03 PM

I use a Garmin Forerunner that I use with my i167. You certainly have a point and there are times when it obviously gives an incorrect reading - however, having used it many times with my Segway as well as testing it with other vehicles (with known speeds), I do believe that the readings on the GPS are at least pretty close to being accurate, most of the time.

DFDureiko · 02-19-2009, 07:59 PM

I spoke with MTO battery about rebuild of the NmH batts, and he very much recommended Dave at Segway of Central FL, they do most of the repairs, have used parts, take trade in's as "parts cars"
I spoke with him today, they do everything in their power to fix it on site (repair facility in Dade City), and only as a last resort send it to NH.
Truely seems like a sincere guy.
I'll get the seg back try my other batteries, then take it to him and see what we can do.
We use the Seg to get around our RV Park in FL, and at large Airstream Rallies to zip back and forth, when you really don't wan't to deal with the Duramax

if they could get their price point to 1995, or even 2400 or so they'd sell alot more. Dave seems to understand those that don't have money to throw at repairs.
Sincerely
Dan

emrnyc · 02-19-2009, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFDureiko

I spoke with MTO battery about rebuild of the NmH batts, and he very much recommended Dave at Segway of Central FL, they do most of the repairs, have used parts, take trade in's as "parts cars"
I spoke with him today, they do everything in their power to fix it on site (repair facility in Dade City), and only as a last resort send it to NH.
Truely seems like a sincere guy.
Dan

Jason from MTO is a great guy.... He refurbed some of our batteries...
And they are working good now ....
Martin

02-19-2009, 01:54 PM	#1
DFDureiko Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: North Franklin, CT Posts: 19	i167 cold battery/platform fault. to preface, I bought a used i167 this spring from the concord dealer with an extra set of batteries, and external charger. Unit was operating fine until cold weather. granted I swapped out the batteries before taking it to FL. thinking I should swap the pair now and again. Starting having problems on cold mornings, would run 1/4 mile stick shake, flash red, shut down. Started back up and then ran ok, it was plugged in overnight during 28degree weather, outside under cover. upon starting ran 100ft, died, now nothing would start it, removed batteries (the only ones I had with me) unpluged and inspected control column. Still red wrench no start. Went to a dealer (who'll remain nameless, as I don't want to cause problems) they said it was a platform fault, they talked to segway and that segway would take care of it for FREE including shipping. I was amazed, I said are you saying they have some sort of unwritten lifetime guarentee, they said YES they stand behind their product. Needless to say I was amazed. I knew it was too good to be true, they called today, said segway replaced "the main board" and "cover" for free and I "should replace the charge contollers and I NEEDED Lion batteries, total $2900.00 again they said they "recommended" change the charge controller" I had/have no intention of getting Lion's, I intended to have a set of the Nmh rebuilt anyway. I said just send it back the charge will be $125 for diagnostics and $75 shipping. I'm bringing my other set of batteries back to FL in a week, first I'll try them, then I'll for sure send a set to MTO for rebuild. I'm still unsure of what Segway replaced, or why they did it for free. at least I did find another dealer who is very knowlegeable and does repairs, and had used parts in stock. I'm just wondering if this whole fiasco was old batteries, pushed over the edge by cold weather???? This might also sound strange, but while in FL during the winter my only storage is outside, you guys think that if I wrap a heating pad around the batteries on cold nights this will solve my problems? Thanks for any and all advice. I really like the seg, in fact we wanted to get another until this fiasco. Dan

02-19-2009, 06:24 PM	#3
rook2218joe Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 189	I've had a similar problem with an i-180 I originally sent my 180 to Segway of Oakland with a similar problem, but I was using Li-Ion batteries and the unit NEVER got below 50 degrees (inside Florida garage). Unfortunately they were unable to repair it. At the present time I am talking with Dan about trying the repair a second time...other option is INC., trade-in to knowledgeable dealer who can repair it for his own use/resale while I get another machine, or buy yet another Gen. 1 Segway through the "used market". To Segway of Oakland's credit, I paid for the shipping charges to their facility, and I offerred to pay the return shipping charges. I have heard some very similar stories about INC and their "free" repairs. Fortunately I've got enough Segways to keep riding, but INC repairs seem to have a "marginal reputation". (Particularly with "add-on" charges and diagnostic fees...for $2900 you can probably buy another unit and use the old one for spare parts. That's what I've done. If you're interested, I have several extra Li-Ion batteries here in Florida that I would be willing to sell. I keep getting them with replacement units. Some of the batteries are still under warranty. (I'd even take your "off-board" charger as a partial trade on a pair of Li-Ions.) You say you've found a "knowledgeable" dealer here in Florida. Where and who? (Use my private address if you don't want to make a "general post".) Lastly, I've got a couple of "really good" Gen. 1 Segways that I would sell you for less than $2900 if you pick-up yourself. Another possibility is that maybe we could put together some of your Segway with some of my Segways and get a working unit...depends on where you are located in Florida. I have a 170 that I call "Patch" that is the fastest, smoothest Segway in our area. On concrete pavement I've gotten up to 14 mph as measured by my GPS...and that's including my 200 + pounds. I'm still looking for a "able dealer", not just someone who wants to ship it back to INC, somewhere within 200 miles of St. Petersburg. (By the way, I'm not complaining about any dealer locally guys. But I am looking for a referral from an "end-user".

02-19-2009, 06:27 PM	#4
rook2218joe Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 189	New CSB I forgot to mention, I also have a "brand new" ready to plug in CSB from a 180tha should fit directly onto your 167. Regards.

02-19-2009, 06:58 PM	#6
KSagal Glides a lot, talks more... Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Pelham, NH, USA. Posts: 10,356	I have a good Garmin Nuvi, which admittedly is a few years old, but if you watch it, I sometimes get speed read-outs while parked in the car. I was under the impression that there is a lot of math, and averaging involved in speed readouts from GPS. Speed readouts from a speedometer are based on wheel revolutions, each one meaning a certain distance traveled. GPS does it the other way around, and figures the straight line distance between point a and point b, then the time it took to get from a to b, then does the math that way to determine speed. Both have their flaws, but the wheel revolution count method is more accurate for segways... Of course, wheel size changes will throw a revolution counter off as a different distance will be traveled per rotation, so if you play with the transmission or wheel size a lot, then the GPS will gain in relative accuracy... __________________ Karl Ian Sagal To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. "Well done is better than well said." (Ben Franklin) Bene factum melior bene dictum Proud past President of SEG America and member of the First Premier Segway Enthusiasts Group and subsequent ones as well.

02-19-2009, 07:01 PM	#7
emrnyc Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 426	Speed...? If anyone wants I'll break out my radar gun..... Martin __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. NYC's Only Segway Trained Level 1 & Level 2 Service Tech To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. 8 EMS - 37 PAPD - 23 NYPD - 343 FDNY Never forget our Brother & Sister Heroes 9/11/01. It was not how they died that made them heroes..... It was how they lived! Check out Emergency Medical Rescue of New York City's website To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

02-19-2009, 06:47 PM	#5
Bob.Kerns Advanced Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Marin County, CA Posts: 3,783	Just a technical note, not a dispute.... I wouldn't trust the accuracy of any GPS reading. Maybe you got it up to 14 MPH, maybe you didn't, or maybe you really made 15.2 -- you don't really know. GPS doesn't really have enough resolution to reliably give you an average speed over short distances or short times. Although it's a good sign if your GPS indicates zero speed when you're sitting still -- it's harder for them when you're moving, and moving fixes are less accurate than stationary ones. So if you're seriously interested in how fast you're going, you're better off measuring a known distance, and using a stop watch. It's more trouble, but it's more informative. Best would be to average repeated trials. Big kudos, however, for stating how you measured it!

02-19-2009, 07:03 PM	#8
SegNerd Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Portland Posts: 672	I use a Garmin Forerunner that I use with my i167. You certainly have a point and there are times when it obviously gives an incorrect reading - however, having used it many times with my Segway as well as testing it with other vehicles (with known speeds), I do believe that the readings on the GPS are at least pretty close to being accurate, most of the time.

02-19-2009, 07:59 PM	#9
DFDureiko Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: North Franklin, CT Posts: 19	I spoke with MTO battery about rebuild of the NmH batts, and he very much recommended Dave at Segway of Central FL, they do most of the repairs, have used parts, take trade in's as "parts cars" I spoke with him today, they do everything in their power to fix it on site (repair facility in Dade City), and only as a last resort send it to NH. Truely seems like a sincere guy. I'll get the seg back try my other batteries, then take it to him and see what we can do. We use the Seg to get around our RV Park in FL, and at large Airstream Rallies to zip back and forth, when you really don't wan't to deal with the Duramax if they could get their price point to 1995, or even 2400 or so they'd sell alot more. Dave seems to understand those that don't have money to throw at repairs. Sincerely Dan

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