A Poser...

bystander · 10-08-2005, 08:42 PM

(...as in "puzzle", not as in "pretender".)

If one were paid in gallons of gasoline instead of dollars,

and the price of an HT in the winter of 2003/2004 was approx. 3000 gallons,

wouldn't the present price of a HT be around 1500 gallons?

So hasn't the price of a HT effectively dropped for those folks that spend a significant fraction of their income on gasoline?

Do those people know that?

Is anyone telling them?

KSagal · 10-08-2005, 09:37 PM

I agree.

When I bought my machine, over 2 years ago, I was told it got the equivilent of 450 miles to the gallon. I never heard exactly how that number was reached...

I think it is safe to assume that there was some evaluation as to the cost of a gallon of gasoline, that cost was converted to average electrical costs, and that much electricity was then converted to miles by how many charges it would net. At least that is how I would do the conversion.

I have recently heard those same numbers. I question them... If my seg, which has relatively the same range as it did as new, got 450 miles to the gallon then, since gas prices have doubled since then, and my electric cost have not even seen a 25% increase, I would have to guess that saying the segs get an equivelent of 750 to 800 miles to the gallon would be at least as accurate as the 450 was when I purchased...

Someone else posted a great response to the age old question, "How much do they cost?" Instead of a $ amount, the response to an SUV owner was, "About what you will spend on gas in 4 months!"

Great reply...

Karl Ian Sagal

Each road you travel should be just a bit better for having had you pass.

ZoliHonig · 10-09-2005, 02:16 AM

That was me Karl, and I love the line, cause I hate telling people how much it is... I dont know... just weird feeling telling people.

---

-Zoli

bystander · 10-09-2005, 03:13 AM

Regarding "equivalent to 450 mpg":

If I recall correctly, that little ditty went something like this:

One gallon of gas costs $1.80
One kwh costs $0.08
$1.80 / $0.08 kwh = 22.5 kwh
One charge cycle uses 600 wh
22.5 kwh / 600 wh = 37.5 charge cycles
One charge cycle = 12 miles
37.5 charge cycles x 12 miles = 450 miles

Or, if using Saphion:

One charge cycle uses 1.2 kwh
22.5 kwh / 1.2 kwh = 18.75 charge cycles
One charge cycle = 24 miles
18.75 charge cycles x 24 miles = 450 miles

If gas is $3.00 and kwh is the same, the "equivalence" is now 750 miles.

Problem is, the cost per mile of a replacement battery on a HT is at least an order of magnitude higher than the cost of electricity, so the "energy equivalence" comparison is rather moot.

Since it's moot, there's no point in pointing out that most users are getting less than 12 miles per full discharge (NiMH) and that one kwh of electricity costs more than 8 cents.

If they had quoted "equivalent to 300 mpg" it would have been be easier to swallow. Anyhow, that's just the "energy" cost.

The overall cost per mile of a HT is not significantly less than that of an automobile unless the auto has only the driver on board. When you factor in cargo carrying capacity (passengers. luggage, etc.) and cost of replacement HT batteries, there are situations where the auto is more efficient.

What I was getting at in the original post was, if one were spending, say 15% of their disposable income on gasoline back in 2003, their buying power has gone down now that gas prices are up. So now, they face spending 30% of their budget on gas.

If they could divert some of those funds to a HT purchase, they ought to realize a higher return on their "petro-dollar" related expenses.

The only risk is that gas prices will go down. And how often does that happen?

10-08-2005, 08:42 PM	#1
bystander Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Southern California, USA. Posts: 1,921	A Poser... (...as in "puzzle", not as in "pretender".) If one were paid in gallons of gasoline instead of dollars, and the price of an HT in the winter of 2003/2004 was approx. 3000 gallons, wouldn't the present price of a HT be around 1500 gallons? So hasn't the price of a HT effectively dropped for those folks that spend a significant fraction of their income on gasoline? Do those people know that? Is anyone telling them?

10-08-2005, 09:37 PM	#2
KSagal Glides a lot, talks more... Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Pelham, NH, USA. Posts: 10,356	I agree. When I bought my machine, over 2 years ago, I was told it got the equivilent of 450 miles to the gallon. I never heard exactly how that number was reached... I think it is safe to assume that there was some evaluation as to the cost of a gallon of gasoline, that cost was converted to average electrical costs, and that much electricity was then converted to miles by how many charges it would net. At least that is how I would do the conversion. I have recently heard those same numbers. I question them... If my seg, which has relatively the same range as it did as new, got 450 miles to the gallon then, since gas prices have doubled since then, and my electric cost have not even seen a 25% increase, I would have to guess that saying the segs get an equivelent of 750 to 800 miles to the gallon would be at least as accurate as the 450 was when I purchased... Someone else posted a great response to the age old question, "How much do they cost?" Instead of a $ amount, the response to an SUV owner was, "About what you will spend on gas in 4 months!" Great reply... Karl Ian Sagal Each road you travel should be just a bit better for having had you pass.

10-09-2005, 02:16 AM	#3
ZoliHonig Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: NY, USA. Posts: 964	That was me Karl, and I love the line, cause I hate telling people how much it is... I dont know... just weird feeling telling people. --- -Zoli

10-09-2005, 03:13 AM	#4
bystander Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Southern California, USA. Posts: 1,921	Regarding "equivalent to 450 mpg": If I recall correctly, that little ditty went something like this: One gallon of gas costs $1.80 One kwh costs $0.08 $1.80 / $0.08 kwh = 22.5 kwh One charge cycle uses 600 wh 22.5 kwh / 600 wh = 37.5 charge cycles One charge cycle = 12 miles 37.5 charge cycles x 12 miles = 450 miles Or, if using Saphion: One charge cycle uses 1.2 kwh 22.5 kwh / 1.2 kwh = 18.75 charge cycles One charge cycle = 24 miles 18.75 charge cycles x 24 miles = 450 miles If gas is $3.00 and kwh is the same, the "equivalence" is now 750 miles. Problem is, the cost per mile of a replacement battery on a HT is at least an order of magnitude higher than the cost of electricity, so the "energy equivalence" comparison is rather moot. Since it's moot, there's no point in pointing out that most users are getting less than 12 miles per full discharge (NiMH) and that one kwh of electricity costs more than 8 cents. If they had quoted "equivalent to 300 mpg" it would have been be easier to swallow. Anyhow, that's just the "energy" cost. The overall cost per mile of a HT is not significantly less than that of an automobile unless the auto has only the driver on board. When you factor in cargo carrying capacity (passengers. luggage, etc.) and cost of replacement HT batteries, there are situations where the auto is more efficient. What I was getting at in the original post was, if one were spending, say 15% of their disposable income on gasoline back in 2003, their buying power has gone down now that gas prices are up. So now, they face spending 30% of their budget on gas. If they could divert some of those funds to a HT purchase, they ought to realize a higher return on their "petro-dollar" related expenses. The only risk is that gas prices will go down. And how often does that happen?

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)