Whats going on here?

[Bob.Kerns]

Originally Posted by JohnG

We need the TOS for legal reasons, believe it or not. It's been updated with a simple set of rules at the top now that spell out the main behavior-based components ("the rules" for members).

That FAQ item has been deleted, since it was so out of date. There are only two moderators here, myself and Florin. We're happy to consider others if they PM me privately.

The TOS hasn't really been the problem. The problem has been the interpersonal conflict between a certain, tiny group of members here who (1) refuse to put one another on ignore (or can just use their own willpower to do so) and (2) feel like they have to get the last word in on any argument with the other member.

I've gone ahead and pruned the thread that started this most recent discussion and reopened it, in hopes of allowing people to continue on-topic.

Thanks for your suggestions and feedback!

John

Nice job, and fast turnaround, too! Kudos!

I did realize that we seem to need legal prose to do simple things in our society; I was just saying that doesn't give us much guidance for this, it not being a legal issue. You fixed that nicely.

Originally Posted by JohnG

We need the TOS for legal reasons, believe it or not. It's been updated with a simple set of rules at the top now that spell out the main behavior-based components ("the rules" for members).

That FAQ item has been deleted, since it was so out of date. There are only two moderators here, myself and Florin. We're happy to consider others if they PM me privately.

The TOS hasn't really been the problem. The problem has been the interpersonal conflict between a certain, tiny group of members here who (1) refuse to put one another on ignore (or can just use their own willpower to do so) and (2) feel like they have to get the last word in on any argument with the other member.

I've gone ahead and pruned the thread that started this most recent discussion and reopened it, in hopes of allowing people to continue on-topic.

Thanks for your suggestions and feedback!

John

Thanks John. I think your efforts here will pay off. My apologies for any ill feelings here but I believe that this thread was very valuable in letting many air their views on these matters

Thanks again for all you do.

[gbrandwood]

Am I the only person on here who has never read the TOS or feels the need to read them? Just treat others with respect, be polite and apologise where necessary. That has served me well on Segway Chat over 7 years.

[eJM]

John, the keep-politics-to-a-minimum is not going to work. Everyone's definition of minimum will be different and even you and Florin will not be able to be consistent in your enforcement of that "rule." I believe it's a fact that politics have hurt this site, just as it has on most sites that allow it. My own participation and interaction with other individuals has been affected by it. By the anonymous and not so anonymous reputation comments I've received, I can see it has affected others as well.

There is no universally accepted measurement of "minimum."

Oh yeah... when you tell people in the TOS to contact you, not everyone will know how to do that. And unregistered visitors won't be able to PM you even if they knew how. Contacting the administrator of a forum should always be in this form:

...contact the website administrator here...

That will help anyone, registered member of not, contact you or whoever the admin is and still protects you from spam and maintains the privacy of your email, unless you reply to them.

Jim

[aricisom]

Why not just give Politics and/or Venting their own forum sectio? That way those that this type or interaction bothers can just stay out of it, and those that like to rant or have thicker skins can do so with out upseting anyone else.

[Bob.Kerns]

Originally Posted by aricisom

Why not just give Politics and/or Venting their own forum sectio? That way those that this type or interaction bothers can just stay out of it, and those that like to rant or have thicker skins can do so with out upseting anyone else.

Usually it comes up in the context of a thread on a different topic.

[aricisom]

Originally Posted by Bob.Kerns

Usually it comes up in the context of a thread on a different topic.

We can keep it out of those other threads by giving them their own space, also allow others from being put off by them...

[eJM]

Originally Posted by aricisom

We can keep it out of those other threads by giving them their own space, also allow others from being put off by them...

That has not been my experience at all in the last 17+ years. Many people have very strong opinions about political issues. It tends to change relationships in the virtual world. Although people tend to forgive neighbors and coworkers their political differences, we haven't learned to do that in the virtual world.

There are plenty - I mean hundreds, if not thousands - of forums dedicated to sharing, debating and fighting over political ideas and parties. None of them have forums for discussing Segways (or flooring). Turn about is fair play.

I have been in heated discussions about political issues here on this forum. I know a couple people think I am a commie socialist liberal. A couple of others think I am a tea-bagging conservative. Thing is, I've never taken to either side here, but some read what they want to believe. It has, unfortunately, changed my opinions about those people and their opinions about me indelibly.

I have always been adamantly anti-politics. I think it hurts non-political forums. I've seen it happen. I've seen it completely destroy forums.

Jim

[KSagal]

I believe that politics is a bigger topic than many want to admit.

If a person is a small government free market conservative, they may have a view about the freedom to use cars, and it will affect their view of gasoline and other taxes, government sponsored subsidies for trains and bike lanes, and much more.

If a person is a large government share the wealth type, they may have a view about the waste of automotive use, and it will affect their view of gasoline and other taxes, government sponsored subsidies for trains and bike lanes, and much more.

I know that political discussion is frequently a hot topic, both in a good way and in a bad way, but it may be far more difficult to contain it in a particular place and not in another place.

I am a big picture thinker, and do not do well to discuss a topic without the ability to flow with the eddies and currents along the surface of other topics. For my thought process, much of the discussion of the parts only makes sense when also discussing the bigger mechanism.

[Bob.Kerns]

Originally Posted by KSagal

I believe that politics is a bigger topic than many want to admit.

If a person is a small government free market conservative, they may have a view about the freedom to use cars, and it will affect their view of gasoline and other taxes, government sponsored subsidies for trains and bike lanes, and much more.

If a person is a large government share the wealth type, they may have a view about the waste of automotive use, and it will affect their view of gasoline and other taxes, government sponsored subsidies for trains and bike lanes, and much more.

I know that political discussion is frequently a hot topic, both in a good way and in a bad way, but it may be far more difficult to contain it in a particular place and not in another place.

I am a big picture thinker, and do not do well to discuss a topic without the ability to flow with the eddies and currents along the surface of other topics. For my thought process, much of the discussion of the parts only makes sense when also discussing the bigger mechanism.

While your political categories are all messed up, I agree 100% with your point.

I think people CAN - and usually DO - respect people's differences of opinion, and we only need to be concerned with the exceptions.

However, this IS a forum about Segways. There should generally be a connection -- as there is, with the transportation issues.

Karl, the reason I point out that you miscategorize the political positions (I realize it was just an example) is because it illustrates nicely a typical problem: mischaracterizing other people's positions via the artificial us/them rhetoric adopted by the various polarizing political sides.

That makes discussions that would otherwise be focused on the issues, degenerate into fights.

You DO recall how much you hate it when *I* characterize your position. If we all seek to understand each other's concerns, it works much better. If I do characterize your position, it helps to understand that as a statement of my understanding of your position, and an opportunity to help me understand it better. That doesn't always happen; I can think of instances in particular where you, Karl, have made such a statement, and it hasn't been taken that way. Both sides can make a difference -- by avoiding key trigger words (like "big government" -- NOBODY except perhaps government unions and empire-building management have a goal of big government), and by avoiding responding to mischaracterizing with anything but clarification.

I'm using you as an example here because you're upfront enough to bring up the issue, rather than to single you out.

Just because we hear this sort of thing spouted by this or that politician, or Fox News or Talk Radio (I can't think of a nationally-recognizable, non-comedy broadcast equivalent on the left, so let's consider MoveOn.org as an example on the other side), doesn't make that sort of thing suitable for online interactions.

I'm not anti-politics. I think politics is essential. But I am anti-divisiveness. I'm opposed to political parties, to group-think, and to not listening to each other. I'm pro-democracy, and I think that requires both the freedom to speak, and the responsibility to listen.

While it's not required that a Segway forum support political speech, I do think it is in our interest to do so when there's a connection to Segways.

But we're also friends. Sometimes, we have ideas, funny videos, or even opinions that we want to share with a particular group of friends. I don't think we should be too picky about topics -- while recognizing that some topics aren't of interest to all, and keeping them separate so as to not waste people's time.

But it doesn't make sense to start a new thread, just to discuss the political aspect around last mile -- a topic that really has nothing to it that doesn't involve the political landscape in the first place.