My las vegas adventure!!

[Lily Kerns]

Originally Posted by ktrends

Sorry for not finishing my story yet. Honestly posting this here has been pretty therapeutic for me. After the situation happened at Aria I moved on and put it out of my mind, then after typing it all out here it sort of made me re-live the events in my mind, and I decided I should do something about it so others don't have to go through it. I called Aria's customer service on Monday and told them I would like to file a complaint, they transferred me to the security department where I spoke to the "manager on duty", he was very un-helpful and told me I was "lucky" they let me use the segway at all and if he was on duty as the manager that night he wouldn't of allowed it. I then asked him if he knew that was against current ada standards and grossly against the ada standards that are about to go in to effect, he told me those "didn't matter" to them as they are "private property and can do whatever they want". I asked who was in charge of the security departments policy's in dealing with these types of things, he told me "your talking to him". I then asked if they had had rails, wheel chair stalls, etc in their bathrooms and he replied yes, I then asked him if he understood that ada is the reason for those things and it is not optional to follow the ADA standards if they are open to the public. At this point he went in to *** covering mode and wanted off the phone, he told me someone would contact me to file a formal written complaint. I got a call a few hours later from a security officer that took down the info, when I asked who I should follow up with he placed me on hold for a while, then cam back on a told me he wasn't allowed to give out the names, or contact info of his managers, I then asked for their titles, he told me he couldn't give me that either. Sounds like they are trying to cover for themselves?

I'm going to keep calling, and if I don't get ahold of someone high enough to figure this out I will start calling the contact at the DOI.

My _personal opinion_ is that you should report them and do it immediately. It is their responsibility to know what the law is. Obviously they will have their own lawyers make their interpretation of the law and act according to that opinion. They _might_ go overboard to bring themselves into compliance--and they might not. If you and they can work this out to a satisfactory solution, then great and that solves that. If not, then you will have a head start on the slow-moving official solution.

My opinion, based on my experience.... <G>

Lily

[Lily Kerns]

Originally Posted by ktrends

Sorry for not finishing my story yet. Honestly posting this here has been pretty therapeutic for me. After the situation happened at Aria I moved on and put it out of my mind, then after typing it all out here it sort of made me re-live the events in my mind, and I decided I should do something about it so others don't have to go through it. I called Aria's customer service on Monday and told them I would like to file a complaint, they transferred me to the security department where I spoke to the "manager on duty", he was very un-helpful and told me I was "lucky" they let me use the segway at all and if he was on duty as the manager that night he wouldn't of allowed it. I then asked him if he knew that was against current ada standards and grossly against the ada standards that are about to go in to effect, he told me those "didn't matter" to them as they are "private property and can do whatever they want". I asked who was in charge of the security departments policy's in dealing with these types of things, he told me "your talking to him". I then asked if they had had rails, wheel chair stalls, etc in their bathrooms and he replied yes, I then asked him if he understood that ada is the reason for those things and it is not optional to follow the ADA standards if they are open to the public. At this point he went in to *** covering mode and wanted off the phone, he told me someone would contact me to file a formal written complaint. I got a call a few hours later from a security officer that took down the info, when I asked who I should follow up with he placed me on hold for a while, then cam back on a told me he wasn't allowed to give out the names, or contact info of his managers, I then asked for their titles, he told me he couldn't give me that either. Sounds like they are trying to cover for themselves?

I'm going to keep calling, and if I don't get ahold of someone high enough to figure this out I will start calling the contact at the DOI.

In MY opinion--and it is based on experience-- You should file a formal complaint with the DOJ and file it immediately. This link will tell you exactly what you need to include for a Title III complaint, including names, dates and particulars.

http://www.ada.gov/t3compfm.htm

I'm not sure just what department would review this, but if it is not the DOI, they are obligated to refer it. And Jack Andre, in my experience, would be the quickest place to start the process.

The DOJ has no way of knowing just how often and in what venues things like this are happening unless formal complaints are filed. If you can resolve it in the mean time, great. If not, then you have at least a head start on the slow-moving formal process.

I would guess that word of a formal complaint of this kind and its potential consequences would soon circulate around Las Vegas and you may actually accomplish more than you set out to do. And don't forget that mall and your problems there. I'm assuming the hotel itself was Ok with your Segway use? And then there is always the possiiblity of publicizing a successful result...

Apologies for some duplication here. the first message just was not appearing when I came back...
Lily

[QuadSquad]

Sorry to interfere as I don't post here anymore but I do read every single post every day.

The civil rights division of the Department of Interior was helpful to Lily because it dealt with an issue (access to parks, conservation areas, etc.) which are under their jurisdiction and purview.

The issue with regard to access with a place of public accommodation (which is what we are referring to in this regard) is an issue which would be dealt with by the Department of Justice.

Issues with regard to public transportation are handled by the United States Department of Transportation.

[Lily Kerns]

Originally Posted by QuadSquad

Sorry to interfere as I don't post here anymore but I do read every single post every day.

The civil rights division of the Department of Interior was helpful to Lily because it dealt with an issue (access to parks, conservation areas, etc.) which are under their jurisdiction and purview.

The issue with regard to access with a place of public accommodation (which is what we are referring to in this regard) is an issue which would be dealt with by the Department of Justice.

Issues with regard to public transportation are handled by the United States Department of Transportation.

Thanks, that is not interference. <G> This is what I suspected might be the case. However any of these is obligated to forward it on to the DOJ or, possilbly, I think maybe to the proper agency.

Any more wisdom to share??? please?? <G> This kind of stuff is not my native territory (I'm a teacher, creative artist and designer) and my ignorance gets me into all kinds of things that are over my head! <G>

Lily

[Tarkus]

Are you using a Gen 1 or Gen II .
I ask as I have flown hundreds of segments on SW without any issues. That's with a Gen I with nickel batteries. I check it at the gate.

Litium ions are grounded.

Please read this link:
http://www.draft.org/LinkClick.aspx?...bid=75&mid=494

Be Big,
AMAC

[ktrends]

Originally Posted by Tarkus

Are you using a Gen 1 or Gen II .
I ask as I have flown hundreds of segments on SW without any issues. That's with a Gen I with nickel batteries. I check it at the gate.

Litium ions are grounded.

Please read this link:
http://www.draft.org/LinkClick.aspx?...bid=75&mid=494

Be Big,
AMAC

Mine is a i2, What models had the nickel metal batteries? I67, I80?

This is great news! I will try to find a deal on a gen 1 for travel, this opens up a lot of possibilities for me!

[KSagal]

Originally Posted by ktrends

Mine is a i2, What models had the nickel metal batteries? I67, I80?

This is great news! I will try to find a deal on a gen 1 for travel, this opens up a lot of possibilities for me!

All Gen 1 machines can use NiMH batteries, and if with current software, they can also use the LiIons. Only gen 2 cannot use NiMH.

[ktrends]

Originally Posted by Lily Kerns

I meant to ask--do you display a disability symbol on your Segway? Technically this should not be necessary. The purpose of the ADA is to integrate the disabled as seamlessly as possible into the general public. Advertising that you are disabled does NOT meet that goal.

What is not at all clear--as I read the new rules--is whether or not they can _require_ you to display the disability symbol. I don't think that is what it says, but I'm sure some will interpret it that way, especially if they really don't want to let you in anyway..... It should not be necessary when they have the right to stop you and ask you to show proof of your disability.

Sorry to have skipped of this question, I got off topic. I do not have a handicapped symbol or anything displayed. I do wear braces on both my legs, so the second day in vegas I opted to wear shorts to try to get hassled less, and it didn't help.

I will be the first one to argue the fact that it should not be required, and if it is then it should also be required for all types of mobility scooters. I guess I don't understand why the segways are so discriminated against?

[ktrends]

PART 3 of my vegas story.


So we finally make it to the convention center, SEMA is a massive event and not only uses every single hall in the convention center, but also spills outside into the surrounding parking areas and several of the streets. We hit a lot of the outside booths on are way into the main hall where we needed to get registered, once inside the correct hall we finally found registration. I parked my segway up against a big concrete column and went through the line to get my pass, and when I made it back to the segway there was a show "manager" waiting to greet me. Please keep in mind I walk with a very obvious limp, so I approach the segway and this person informs me that segways are not allowed inside in of the convention centers (we are talking literally millions of sq/ft), so of course I started to argue my point of being there with the segway and the fact I had called 6 months earlier and told it wouldn't be a problem, I was referred to the show management office. So I arrive at the show managers office and was greeted with a very angry little old lady that was adamant that I didn't need the segway, and that I could rent a sit-down scooter for $80 a day if I had a problem walking. I then informed her that sitting for long periods of time was the exact problem that led me to a segway as a mobility device. She just kept telling me that segways are "EXTREMELY DANGEROUS" and they had "several accidents and serious injuries in the past from them". Eventually after showing her my disable id and telling her I call months in advance to make sure everything was ok, she gave me a special pass to use the segway.

These are the exact situations that will be much easier with the new ada regulations, and I would of never known about those regulations without this great site!

[ktrends]