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Old 02-05-2008, 09:07 PM   #11
BillPaxton
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Now, the two parties have a strangle hold and will not likely give it up.
my answer to that is term limits!
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Old 02-05-2008, 09:24 PM   #12
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I believe that it does in rare cases make it so that our votes do not count! I support removing the electoral college and making it so that every single vote counts as a vote! It just makes me wonder how much different this country would be if it was abolished pre 2000 and we had a president Gore currently in office! I will not begin to speculate as things would be different on so many levels but how different they would be we will never know! Either way it's fun to think about whether you believe it could have been better or worse!


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Old 02-05-2008, 10:29 PM   #13
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Jeremy, I'm not sure if you are being serious or sarcastic, and whichever may be true I'm also not sure how to answer knowing your political affiliation. I constantly try to follow the credo of "a closed mouth gathers no foot" but this thread has me going for some reason; maybe its because my county was the center of the debaucle last election, possibly because I sat through horribly partisan meetings discussing "hanging chads" and CNN trucks circling our courthouses and the like, I'm really not sure. What I am sure about is that even though our votes count (or don't as you speculate), we have MUCH bigger evils. Oil companies merging without so much as a congressional review, pharmaceutical companies lobbying to bankrupt bio-identical manufacturers, congress being bought and sold by lobbies, our healthcare professionals making less and less every year while our representatives vote themselves raises...just get me started and sit back and listen. We agree on many things and disagree on as many, so please go to SF, I'd love to debate you over a pint.
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I believe that it does in rare cases make it so that our votes do not count! I support removing the electoral college and making it so that every single vote counts as a vote! It just makes me wonder how much different this country would be if it was abolished pre 2000 and we had a president Gore currently in office! I will not begin to speculate as things would be different on so many levels but how different they would be we will never know! Either way it's fun to think about whether you believe it could have been better or worse!


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Old 02-05-2008, 10:31 PM   #14
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my answer to that is term limits!
I wholeheartedly concur, but they would have to be voted into law, and who does the voting into law? The two parties.

A good example of this abuse of power is the Speach the President makes every Saturday. I listen to the President's speach whenever I can...

An hour later, (or so) the other party has some up and commer give some sort of other speach, as the 'rebuttal'.

First off, the second speach when I listen to it, is rarely about the first one. Secondly, it was the President who spoke first, not the Republican or Democrat.

Just pols feathering their own nests on my dime...
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Old 02-05-2008, 10:42 PM   #15
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change starts with one person. the journey of 1,000 miles begins with one step. We are all, without exception, disgruntled with *some* part of our government; its coming around to time for us to speak up, like we did in the 1700's so that our elected officials understand they work for us and not lobbyists...we need to fire those that do not represent us, reclaim our country.
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I wholeheartedly concur, but they would have to be voted into law, and who does the voting into law? The two parties.

A good example of this abuse of power is the Speach the President makes every Saturday. I listen to the President's speach whenever I can...

An hour later, (or so) the other party has some up and commer give some sort of other speach, as the 'rebuttal'.

First off, the second speach when I listen to it, is rarely about the first one. Secondly, it was the President who spoke first, not the Republican or Democrat.

Just pols feathering their own nests on my dime...
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Old 02-05-2008, 11:17 PM   #16
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Both Bill and I (my spouse, Bill, not our esteemed Mr. Paxton) have felt, for quite some time now, that our country would probably be headed for another Civil War, if two (or more) sides could agree upon just what, exactly, would be worth splitting the country apart.

One of the big problems we've had for the last 20 years is trying to outlaw the cause for every- (and any-) one's fears.

Case in point: At first there was no data available, and now the available data disagrees with those who have determined the Segway to be unsafe, and have outlawed its usage in their jurisdictions.

But because someone, somewhere feared it... it had to be outlawed.

And because our lawmaking has been fear driven for twenty-plus years, it's gotten to the point where the government supports health care insurers who refuse to pay claims, home insurance providers who do the same. In Texas, fearing doctors would leave the state if they weren't paid, a bill was passed making the STATE the automatic power-of-attorney for health care purposes of anyone without medical insurance, superceding any and all health care directives already in place for the patient; during the whole Terry Schiavo escapade on the national level, at the state level, a case was making its way to the Texas Supreme Court where the hospital was being sued for pulling the plug on an 8-year old child, against the wishes of the parents of that child.

Texas won. The kid died.

Didn't see word one in the national media, though.
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Old 02-05-2008, 11:45 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillPaxton View Post
Jeremy, I'm not sure if you are being serious or sarcastic, and whichever may be true I'm also not sure how to answer knowing your political affiliation. I constantly try to follow the credo of "a closed mouth gathers no foot" but this thread has me going for some reason; maybe its because my county was the center of the debaucle last election, possibly because I sat through horribly partisan meetings discussing "hanging chads" and CNN trucks circling our courthouses and the like, I'm really not sure. What I am sure about is that even though our votes count (or don't as you speculate), we have MUCH bigger evils. Oil companies merging without so much as a congressional review, pharmaceutical companies lobbying to bankrupt bio-identical manufacturers, congress being bought and sold by lobbies, our healthcare professionals making less and less every year while our representatives vote themselves raises...just get me started and sit back and listen. We agree on many things and disagree on as many, so please go to SF, I'd love to debate you over a pint.
Bill, I thank you for a constructive response! I was being very serious! I agree that our votes count to an extent which is why I vote! I believe it is the responsibility not right of every American to vote and if you can vote and don't you have no right whatsoever to complain. That being said there is a time (2000) when our votes do not quite count! Any way you look at it Al Gore won the popular vote! This is the vote of the people!

I am not going to argue legitimacy anymore but Bush got (not won in my opinion because in order to win I believe you must win the popular vote) the presidency! That is simply what I meant. I meant the majority of America, in rare circumstances, can vote one man (or woman) in office and that person may not take office! In these rare cases, in my opinion, the American vote did not count! This in no way means we should not vote however! I do not know where Jupiter is, but if it is near Destin I would love to meet with you in July when I travel to Destin for my sister's wedding!

On a seperate note, I do agree with you, there are much bigger issues at stake here! I think the reason we have so many problems is that there is not enough pressure on the people we elect into the house and senate to clean up these issues! There is no reason all these issues and problems cannot be addressed and corrected! It is unacceptable! We are basically these people's boss. We "hire" them and we can "fire" them. We need to step up and let them know we will "fire" if needed!

It seems our country is in turmoil right now! Our economy is lacking, there are several issues on all aspects of the playing field! America has been in struggles before and with the right guidance we can overcome this one as we have all others! Keep that in mind when you vote for whoever you vote for, this is more than an election! This next president has the potential to make or break America as do many that follow! All empires must fall. Please keep this in mind and vote according to who you think will prevent our fall!


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Old 02-06-2008, 12:25 AM   #18
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I'll agree to disagree. I do honestly think that this presidency will be reguarded historically as great and also as tainted. I do not care to elaborate over a post (but I am happy to do the same at a pub over a pint). Politics are tricky and its hard not to tick people off, we all have our most important thing that the government just doesn't seem to give a **** about, so there is no sense in ruffling feathers. This is all the reason you should come to SF...imagine you and Karl & I arguing politics! I can't really think of a better reason to attend!! I think we've gone off kilter even for this off topic, so if you'd care to adress me via PM I am all ears and guns-a-blazin, but let's just keep any political response amongst ourselves if thats ok with you. Above all tho, peace. +B
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Bill, I thank you for a constructive response! I was being very serious! I agree that our votes count to an extent which is why I vote! I believe it is the responsibility not right of every American to vote and if you can vote and don't you have no right whatsoever to complain. That being said there is a time (2000) when our votes do not quite count! Any way you look at it Al Gore won the popular vote! This is the vote of the people!

I am not going to argue legitimacy anymore but Bush got (not won in my opinion because in order to win I believe you must win the popular vote) the presidency! That is simply what I meant. I meant the majority of America, in rare circumstances, can vote one man (or woman) in office and that person may not take office! In these rare cases, in my opinion, the American vote did not count! This in no way means we should not vote however! I do not know where Jupiter is, but if it is near Destin I would love to meet with you in July when I travel to Destin for my sister's wedding!

On a seperate note, I do agree with you, there are much bigger issues at stake here! I think the reason we have so many problems is that there is not enough pressure on the people we elect into the house and senate to clean up these issues! There is no reason all these issues and problems cannot be addressed and corrected! It is unacceptable! We are basically these people's boss. We "hire" them and we can "fire" them. We need to step up and let them know we will "fire" if needed!

It seems our country is in turmoil right now! Our economy is lacking, there are several issues on all aspects of the playing field! America has been in struggles before and with the right guidance we can overcome this one as we have all others! Keep that in mind when you vote for whoever you vote for, this is more than an election! This next president has the potential to make or break America as do many that follow! All empires must fall. Please keep this in mind and vote according to who you think will prevent our fall!


Jeremy Ryan
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Old 02-06-2008, 12:37 AM   #19
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I'll agree to disagree. I do honestly think that this presidency will be reguarded historically as great and also as tainted. I do not care to elaborate over a post (but I am happy to do the same at a pub over a pint)...
Ummm... though I have no idea if alcohol was involved or not, I'd guess, given Jeremy's recent history with automobiles, a pint at the pub might not be a good idea, unless taxis are on the ready!
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Old 02-06-2008, 12:45 AM   #20
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I believe that Jeremy is 19. (Please correct me if I am wrong)

What is the drinking age in Indy? I don't want to be accused of being a party to the delenquency of a minor. LOL.

Actually, even if the drinking age is 21, and he is 19, I do not think it has anything to do with a minor, a status one looses at 18.

We'll figure it out... First round is on Bill, even if it is coke. I'll get the next.
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