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Old 02-03-2008, 02:36 PM   #11
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Let me see how many ways I can dissect this statement....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jryan View Post
I find it funny that they say George W. Bush fell off a Segway and now he can hardly stand on two feet! ...
President Bush did not fall off a Segway, no matter what you have heard nor what pictures you have seen. To correct this constantly stated "fact", when President Bush went to get on the Segway it had not been turned on (he did not have the keys) and, as it will do, it leaned forward and he stepped forward and off the unit. Although he stumbled at no time did he fall.

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...I don't see any problems with his standing, but I do know for a fact that ANY problem George W. Bush has is strictly due to a lack of brain cells that invoke common sense and ethics! ...
And you know this fact how? Have you spoken to people who have looked at his brain? And what ethics violations has he been accused of, if any?

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Originally Posted by jryan View Post
... If he does have problems standing I would refer to his long list of probable psychological disorders not at all to his Segway fall (if you can even call it that)!


Jeremy Ryan
Again, what psychological disorders do you speak of that nobody else knows about? Just because you dislike somebody doesn't mean you should cast aspersions such as these.

Tsk, tsk, tsk.

Steven
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Old 02-03-2008, 03:22 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Desert_Seg View Post
Let me see how many ways I can dissect this statement....



President Bush did not fall off a Segway, no matter what you have heard nor what pictures you have seen. To correct this constantly stated "fact", when President Bush went to get on the Segway it had not been turned on (he did not have the keys) and, as it will do, it leaned forward and he stepped forward and off the unit. Although he stumbled at no time did he fall.



And you know this fact how? Have you spoken to people who have looked at his brain? And what ethics violations has he been accused of, if any?



Again, what psychological disorders do you speak of that nobody else knows about? Just because you dislike somebody doesn't mean you should cast aspersions such as these.

Tsk, tsk, tsk.

Steven
Steven you took me a little too seriously! Most of this post was a joke with slight references to truth. Let me explain myself further however. I know Bush did not fall off the Segway that is why I said fell off (if you could call it that)! The if you could call it that portion implied doubt of falling! I do not know as a fact whether or not president Bush is missing brain cells.

As far as ethics go however that is a different story. President Bush has been accused of several ethics issues the biggest of which would be lying to the American people! Others include memos stating that torture is allowed for interrogation, failing to act on Katrina in a timely manner, falsifying information left and right, burning important documents, etc. The list goes on.

Not all of these are ethics issues but all of them stem out of lies. None have been tried but all have been accused and a long list of others. You asked what he was accused of and the fact is that those are all widespread accusations. Please do not tell me there is no proof for any accusations therefore there is no merit! The fact is that while he has not been tried, he is still President. Before debating whether any of these accusations are legitimate or not lets give it some time! I assume more information one way or the other will suface once he is out of office!

As far as psychological disorders go I do not have any proof that he has any! Many people have suggested that something was psychologically wrong with him and many psychologists have suggested that he displays symptoms! I doubt he will ever be evaluated as a diagnosis would hurt his image, yet this was more of a joke! I will not say as fact that he does have psychological problems but will state that that statement was more of a joke! In my opinion there is something seriously wrong with him. I do not believe every accusation that comes against him is true, I do however believe that many are true!


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Old 02-03-2008, 08:25 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jryan View Post
... Most of this post was a joke with slight references to truth.
... President Bush has been accused of several ethics issues
... None have been tried but all have been accused and a long list of others.
...The fact is that while he has not been tried, he is still President.
... I assume more information one way or the other will suface once he is out of office!
...As far as psychological disorders go I do not have any proof that he has any!

...In my opinion there is something seriously wrong with him. I do not believe every accusation that comes against him is true, I do however believe that many are true!


Jeremy Ryan

Jeremy, with your statements above, you could EASILY be charged with defamation of character, or libel.

Despite the fact that the President is a public figure under the law - thus is more of a valid target - the following quote from ExpertLaw should give you pause in your "jokes":

Under the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, as set forth by the U.S. Supreme Court in the 1964 Case, New York Times v Sullivan, where a public figure attempts to bring an action for defamation, the public figure must prove an additional element: That the statement was made with "actual malice". In translation, that means that the person making the statement knew the statement to be false, or issued the statement with reckless disregard as to its truth. (emphasis added)

We are all aware that you have no love for the current administration, however, your frequent denigrations are getting tiresome to me, and probably others.

Not everyone in this country shares your opinions, as evidenced by the FACT that he was twice elected, by due process of the laws of this country.

So put it to rest, and look forward to the fact that he will be gone in less than a year. Who knows, you might even be happier when McCain wins the next two!!
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Old 02-03-2008, 08:58 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Five-Flags View Post
We are all aware that you have no love for the current administration, however, your frequent denigrations are getting tiresome to me, and probably others.

Not everyone in this country shares your opinions, as evidenced by the FACT that he was twice elected, by due process of the laws of this country.

So put it to rest, and look forward to the fact that he will be gone in less than a year. Who knows, you might even be happier when McCain wins the next two!!
I do apologize if you are getting tired of any of my posts that reference Bush! I understand that not everyone shares my opinions! You did say it is a FACT he was twice elected..... This has been under question for many years and I myself do not fully believe it! If ten years from now there is no evidence of cheating the election I will believe it was legitimate!

The fact is that, if he did cheat the election, the evidence would not come out during his terms in office. If it happened, the administration is not foolish enough to let it slip. It is still under question and will surely be more thouroughly investigated when the time comes that he is out of office!

As far as McCain goes I would not count on him in the oval office! It's not something I would say is impossible but I doubt it will happen! Either way I respect your opinions five-flags although they differ from mine! The FACT is that there really are no FACTS! In years to come things will be sorted out and there will be facts! They may lean your way they may lean mine. Regardless I do not believe, at this time, that anything is Fact!

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Old 02-03-2008, 09:01 PM   #15
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I was simply responding to Steven's post as he disagreed with what I said and offered a constructive criticism! If he would not have asked me for clarification it would not have been provided and you may have been happier with this discussion five flags! But regardless thank you Steven!


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Old 02-03-2008, 09:18 PM   #16
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Here hear! Well put Five Flags!

I find some things interesting. Bush is actually quite the athlete for his age, and is very fit. He did not only not fall, but he did not drop his tennis raquet either, I believe.

Next, George Bush, while surely not a favorite of our friend Jeremy, has not been brought up on charges at all, yet his predicessor not only was, but was also convicted. Wasn't Clinton the first President in history to not only be impeached and convicted, but also disbarred? I am not sure on that one, but I know there are some similar stats to that for him, yet we don't hear about it much.

Accused by Jeremy and accused by the courts is a very different thing. I can accuse anyone of anything, but that has very little with actual guilt.

For ethics, I would say that if you show me a man who cheats on his wife, and cheats on his business partners, I will show you a man who cheats on other things as well...

Now, George Bush did get elected twice. So, if you are so unhappy with that process, it means you are equally upset with the people who put him there? Like all those millions of people who voted for him? Since he won, it seems that you are upset at the majority, which is surely okay in this country, but not so much in other countries.

I for one, do not think he has done as well as I would have liked, but neither did most of his predisessors. I do stop far short however at disrespecting his office, or even his intentions.

As to people not telling the truth, have you ever met a politician who does? I have often been accused of saying there is a lie when others might say it was just a mis-representation of the facts, or something like that...

I am reminded of a joke that is clearly older than Jeremy...

What is the difference between a politician and a Lady?

A Lady says no when she means maybe, says maybe when she means yes, says if she says Yes is no lady...

A Politician says yes when he means maybe, says maybe when he means no, and if he says no is no politician.

I also know that some say that Bush himself is responsible for Katrina, because we all know that he was the one who installed that Democaratic Mayor... No wait, that was the people who elected him... Well, at least he was the one who told the mayor not to pay the drivers or the cops, and to let all those busses sink in the water...

And we all know it was GB personally who appointed that Democratic governor... No, wait, that was the the people who voted for her. At least we know that he never warned her about the comming storm, because we all know the White house is the only place in Government which has the weather channel. And all George had to do was call the state government to ask if they wanted help... No, wait, he did, three days before it was requested. At that time, he was told no thanks...

An by the way, after the city messed up, the state fell down. After the state messed up, the feds fell down. That is true.

ANd the story in Missisippi was very different. During the first days it was very similiar, but in the days and weeks after, the locals proved themselves to not be as incompetent, and we do not hear so much about how bad that was handled, as it was not handled so poorly, much to the credit of many many people, local and from further away... Still a tragedy, but not nearly as badly screwed up...

A rant against my president and against my way of life (active partisapation in this democratic republic) is a rant against me. Expressing an opinion that is contrary to mine, in a maner that I would not use to express myself is different. I choose to disagree with much of what was said in the posts that clearly inspired this one, but I do not choose to disolve into a further rant on my part.

I suspect that the only psycholical condition that has been demostrated here in the last several posts is 'Bush Derangement Syndrome'. The rest is just an impassioned, if not entirely accurate, expression of a single person's opinion.
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Old 02-03-2008, 09:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jryan View Post
...You did say it is a FACT he was twice elected..... This has been under question for many years and I myself do not fully believe it! If ten years from now there is no evidence of cheating the election I will believe it was legitimate!be more thouroughly investigated when the time comes that he is out of office!
...

Regardless I do not believe, at this time, that anything is Fact!

Jeremy Ryan

Whether you believe it or not, FACTS are what occured.

Bush was elected. FACT!

Whether any irregularities occured or not, the Supreme Court made a ruling that the election results would stand. FACT!

Even if something should surface in the future (SPECULATION!), it will still not change the FACT that he was elected by the laws of the country and has served those terms as President.

There are far too many instances of people trying to rewrite history to suit their preferences and predjudices, and I exclude none of the political parties from that statement.

The censorship of textbooks and the immolation of the facts that occured, in my not-so-humble opinion should be a capital crime.

But, of course, that's just MY opinion.
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Old 02-03-2008, 09:45 PM   #18
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Quote:
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... The FACT is that there really are no FACTS! In years to come things will be sorted out and there will be facts! They may lean your way they may lean mine. Regardless I do not believe, at this time, that anything is Fact!

Jeremy Ryan

It has been my experience that Facts do not lean at all. It is just that people are very subjective when reporting facts, or recognising facts, or even acknowledging facts...

It has also (to respond to another post) been my experience that the winners and the party in power are often the ones who write the history books, and the simple fact is, that historical record has been manipulated since people learned to write things down...
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Old 02-03-2008, 09:53 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Five-Flags View Post
Whether you believe it or not, FACTS are what occured.

Bush was elected. FACT!

Whether any irregularities occured or not, the Supreme Court made a ruling that the election results would stand. FACT!

Even if something should surface in the future (SPECULATION!), it will still not change the FACT that he was elected by the laws of the country and has served those terms as President.

There are far too many instances of people trying to rewrite history to suit their preferences and predjudices, and I exclude none of the political parties from that statement.

The censorship of textbooks and the immolation of the facts that occured, in my not-so-humble opinion should be a capital crime.

But, of course, that's just MY opinion.

I thank you for your opinion! I do not agree with it! I agree Bush was elected! I believe the Supreme court made a ruling the results would stand! This is obvious. I do not believe that it is a FACT that he was elected by the laws of this country. The FACT is that if he cheated, no matter what the supreme court said it would not be by the laws of this country! Cheating an election is illegal! I am not saying he did because this has not been determined fact! I am saying the possibility is there that one or both elections could have easily been cheated and the allegations are there!

I would not call it fact that he cheated and I would not call it fact that he didn't! I think there is a lot of possible evidence that needs to be fact checked before we can come to an absolute conclusion. This checking will take time and I do not believe it will start until he leaves office. Nonetheless, it is my opinion that there is no place for "facts" until the allegations and alleged evidence is proven wrong!

I also agree with you that there are bad links on both sides. I am not going to sit here and say the Democrats are perfect. I will have to sit here and say that it seems we have both said all we can say on the Bush matter and we should probably just agree to disagree!


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Old 02-03-2008, 10:03 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSagal View Post
It has been my experience that Facts do not lean at all. It is just that people are very subjective when reporting facts, or recognising facts, or even acknowledging facts...

It has also (to respond to another post) been my experience that the winners and the party in power are often the ones who write the history books, and the simple fact is, that historical record has been manipulated since people learned to write things down...
Thank you Karl, I think simply what I meant by lean is this! Five-flags has his opinion of what the truth may be, I have mine. Chances are when there actually are FACTs, when all reasonalble allegations have been expelled and either proven true or false, one of our opinions will be correct! That is what I mean by lean! Five flags has the opinion (or so it seems) that Bush won legitimately! I respect that opinion, but disagree and believe there was cheating involved. Eventually it will prove one of our opinions is correct!

I have not seen enough confirmed evidence to suggest that he won legitimately! I have not seen enough confirmed evidence either that he cheated! There are allegations both ways but I have not really seen it investigated and confirmed by someone of a bipartisan nature or really anyone who has no benefit from lying! A time will come where all allegations will be put to rest with fact on the election issue and several others! Until then I hold my stance that there are no facts just opinions!


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