i rented a segway ht... - Page 2

BruceWright · 06-01-2003, 02:44 AM

So what are you going to do, pt? What's your next step?

Okay, rental places have gotten your Segway banned. What do you do now?

Can we stop rental places from being created? Not that I can see. And the damage has already started in your home town.

What are you going to do?

We get it. Rentals are bad. 500 posts and 10 threads later, we get it!

Now what? You going to lobby the city? Get a private owner's license waiver? Get the city to ban rentals of Segways? Challenge the ban in court? Picket? Call newspapers?

Oh, and you have a ROBOT DOG!

-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream

vpv · 06-01-2003, 02:55 AM

pt...I've read all the facts. i'm not disputing the facts.that's not the issue...its your overreactions is what i'm concerned about.. it's your absurd comments about rental biz out there is what concerns me.... But then again.. I can't stop your complaining about them...
Like I said in previous posts, all bans are misguided... and people who agree on them seem to be misguided too.. I just hope you're not one of them... but you've already demonstrated that on this Park issue.
I think all i'm trying to SUGGEST here is to focus our energy on fighting the bans and not to put the blame on Segway users (rented or owned)..
You're right, someone will get hurt (or have already gotten hurt) from rental. Someone will die on rental. Someone will get hurt or die on owning a Segway.. But that's not an issue..
The issue is DON'T BAN THE SEGWAY!! regardless of whether people get hurt or die!!
That's the bottom line....Let's focus on that.. I tried to help the best I can..... but if people here in this forum are so disorganized or have different agendas.. can't help that..

BruceWright · 06-01-2003, 03:06 AM

vpv,

How do we achieve the idea of "Don't ban the Segway?"

I'm curious. We got like 1000 people here, and we all write letters to places. Some of them decide not to ban it, some of them decide to ban it. La Mirada, Pasadena, wherever. We've been doing this for months now.

We're talking in any given random city, a million people and 2 Segways. How far do you think "don't ban the Segway" can get? How far has it gotten us so far?

What do you propose that fixes this? We say "Don't ban the Segway, regardless of whether people get hurt or die!" Is that our rallying cry?

Okay, I believe you. All bans are misguided. Sure. Got a solution, cause I'd love to hear it. How do we get the political power to do this before a rental place opens next door? There seems to be a new one each week. It's gonna get tough out there.

-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream

pt · 06-01-2003, 03:15 AM

bruce-

i don't know. some folks don't get it quite yet, it's okay...this is one of those times when it sucks being right.

rentals are here to stay, that is a fact. rentals -are- coming to all of our cities sooner than we think.

what am i going to do? well, here's what i've done.

so far, i've rented a ht, spent 3 hours there talking with them, telling them everything i could about my concerns. they're going to work with the park dept. i'm going to work with them and the park department. i'm going to chat with the senator to see what our options are. i'm going to talk to as many people as i can to make sure we all can discuss this.

i spoke with segway. i'm talking with the owners in my area so we can all approach the city if needed.

i'm documenting all of this, i'm trying the best i can.

i'm talking with jack (trying to) in vancouver, canada. i speak to larry in spokane and keith in nevrland on a regular basis.

i've posted here 500 times in 10 threads so folks can see this and figure out what they think.

i'm not doing this for me i can ride in the street for all of my commute or buy a new car, i'm doing this for everyone. i'm doing this because i believe i know what's going to happen across the country unless someone does something -now-.

i feel strongly about this. i know what i'm doing now may stop a ban in cities around the world through education of the rental folks, owners and more. i know that rental folks might be a little safer now and people might not get hurt, i'm bold enough to say i know for a fact some rental places have already changed. i know i made it safer out there.

...and i'm doing more than i should. i'm just one person, i don't work for segway and i'm gettin' tired. i could use some help-- i cannot keep this up for much longer and that's most likely better for me personally anyway.

so back to what am i going to do? i think i did all i could.

cheers,
pt

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

vpv · 06-01-2003, 03:41 AM

Bruce,
You seemed to have touched on one of the solutions that will accomplish our goal of "Don't ban the Segway"--political power. LLC is doing a great job on this... but owners/renters ought to be more proactive on attaining political power..It's the only way to change some existing weak EPAMD laws out there, like in Calif & other States where it allowed cities the option to ban/restrict.. These state laws are flawed in that regard and it ought to be change.. Maybe a federal law allowing EPAMD on all sidewalks with no options to ban/restrict.. That's a long way to accomplish.. but it will not be accomplished if all we do is send emails here and there. Let's get organized just like the anti-seggers out there are organized. They're more organized than we are. Let's not wait until an issue (ban) comes up and we're so unprepared in fighting it..

One of the suggestions I placed on this forum is to document in writing the initial positive acceptance of people who tried riding Segways (and rentals can now collect these documented reactions from people who try it) and have them acknowledge it in a form of a petition to their city officials...
If we continue what we've always done in the past, we'll get what we've always gotten--bans..
It's time to change..

pt · 06-01-2003, 03:58 AM

vpv-

i do think this is a better "mode" to be in. you need to understand, i'm doing the best i can to gather all the data i can, ya'll can figure out what to do next too.

while i don't think a petition is any good (sorry) i am open to anything that might work. soo....

i did ask -today- "what if i got 1,000 or 1,000,000 signatures that said the ht is safe and the ht is great, would that stop a ban or reverse the park ban in seattle".

do you know what the parks department said?

no.

as in, no. that won't work no. as in, that's a waste of time no.

they told me public safety will outweigh public opinion with something like this and while it might be interesting as a data point for someone it won't do anything. basically, the laws would need to be changed and a lobbyist would be needed for real change when a ban happens -or- if you want to change existing laws so bans are harder to pass without merit.

so if you want to start on that one, i'd like to hear some ideas too.

but hey, don't let all these facts from my city with a park ban (and possible sidewalk ban) influence you--

i'd like to know if your petition thing would work, so can you try it and report back? cali is always on the ban block, anything will help.

cheers,
pt

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

mzokc · 06-01-2003, 04:34 AM

Any crowded location is suspect for an HT ban. However, in our state, no municipality can pass a law preventing the use of the EPAMD.

A glider license would work, but that is not currently legal.

The answer in Oklahoma to regulate rentals is TAX. They love to TAX whenever possible. They are NOT going to stop something that is providing revenue!

Mark

vpv · 06-01-2003, 04:56 AM

pt..
Like I said before, you're commended for doing a great job.

I do think that petition will work if presented to the right people who has the actual authority to make decisions. I don't know if the park department has overall authority on bans or whether the city has final authority over the park department. If the latter is true, then we've asked the wrong guy.
However, we all know that public safety is not an issue with the Segway, otherwise we wouldn't buy it...Therefore whoever told you that public safety outweighs public opinion is again misinformed of the capabilities of the Segway and is making decisions out of fear and mistrust--classic profile of a ban. The petition will clear all these fears. I do however am waiting for a more authoritative entity out there that is well trusted among everyone, like the "Highway Institute" (sic) that test crash cars and report objectively on these results or similar entity.

I will try my best to see if petitions work and will report back.. but just like you said I'm just one person and could surely use some help.

pt · 06-01-2003, 05:04 AM

the parks department has 100% authority to do what they did. and they did it. the person i talked to confirmed everything i suspected.

public safety is an issue with the segway, it's not harmless no matter what any of us think, i'll be the first to go 1,000 miles soon-- trust me i know what the ht is capable of is experienced and non-experienced hands. cities work with lawyers, engineers and figure out what the risk of something is. 10 segways hts in a busy public park bzzzt, not safe. ban.

the park dept said a petition is useless a study from the high inst. will take years, what are we to do- now?

until you try a petition and it works, i gotta believe my city officials when they tell me that's a waste of time.

please report back asap, we need to know what can work.

cheers,
pt

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

BenjiUK · 06-01-2003, 05:45 AM

How excatly could a glider hurt another person, yes I can understand at 12mph an impact could be nasty, but if its black key only what would a 6mph impact do to someone?

I'm imagining that once contact was made the seg is pushed backwards and stops while impactee is pushed over or just unblanced?

It seems that these bans are through concern over public safety which is what the seg was built around was it not? Any chance of seeing notes on how the parks came to this conclusion, obviously I'm a little concerned that the same thing will happen here.

B.

06-01-2003, 02:44 AM	#11
BruceWright Advanced Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sherman Oaks (Los Angeles), California, USA. Posts: 3,296	So what are you going to do, pt? What's your next step? Okay, rental places have gotten your Segway banned. What do you do now? Can we stop rental places from being created? Not that I can see. And the damage has already started in your home town. What are you going to do? We get it. Rentals are bad. 500 posts and 10 threads later, we get it! Now what? You going to lobby the city? Get a private owner's license waiver? Get the city to ban rentals of Segways? Challenge the ban in court? Picket? Call newspapers? Oh, and you have a ROBOT DOG! -Bruce Wright Segway: Vehicle of Dream

06-01-2003, 02:55 AM	#12
vpv Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA, . Posts: 106	pt...I've read all the facts. i'm not disputing the facts.that's not the issue...its your overreactions is what i'm concerned about.. it's your absurd comments about rental biz out there is what concerns me.... But then again.. I can't stop your complaining about them... Like I said in previous posts, all bans are misguided... and people who agree on them seem to be misguided too.. I just hope you're not one of them... but you've already demonstrated that on this Park issue. I think all i'm trying to SUGGEST here is to focus our energy on fighting the bans and not to put the blame on Segway users (rented or owned).. You're right, someone will get hurt (or have already gotten hurt) from rental. Someone will die on rental. Someone will get hurt or die on owning a Segway.. But that's not an issue.. The issue is DON'T BAN THE SEGWAY!! regardless of whether people get hurt or die!! That's the bottom line....Let's focus on that.. I tried to help the best I can..... but if people here in this forum are so disorganized or have different agendas.. can't help that..

06-01-2003, 03:06 AM	#13
BruceWright Advanced Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sherman Oaks (Los Angeles), California, USA. Posts: 3,296	vpv, How do we achieve the idea of "Don't ban the Segway?" I'm curious. We got like 1000 people here, and we all write letters to places. Some of them decide not to ban it, some of them decide to ban it. La Mirada, Pasadena, wherever. We've been doing this for months now. We're talking in any given random city, a million people and 2 Segways. How far do you think "don't ban the Segway" can get? How far has it gotten us so far? What do you propose that fixes this? We say "Don't ban the Segway, regardless of whether people get hurt or die!" Is that our rallying cry? Okay, I believe you. All bans are misguided. Sure. Got a solution, cause I'd love to hear it. How do we get the political power to do this before a rental place opens next door? There seems to be a new one each week. It's gonna get tough out there. -Bruce Wright Segway: Vehicle of Dream

06-01-2003, 03:15 AM	#14
pt Advanced Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: seattle, wa, USA. Posts: 3,000	bruce- i don't know. some folks don't get it quite yet, it's okay...this is one of those times when it sucks being right. rentals are here to stay, that is a fact. rentals -are- coming to all of our cities sooner than we think. what am i going to do? well, here's what i've done. so far, i've rented a ht, spent 3 hours there talking with them, telling them everything i could about my concerns. they're going to work with the park dept. i'm going to work with them and the park department. i'm going to chat with the senator to see what our options are. i'm going to talk to as many people as i can to make sure we all can discuss this. i spoke with segway. i'm talking with the owners in my area so we can all approach the city if needed. i'm documenting all of this, i'm trying the best i can. i'm talking with jack (trying to) in vancouver, canada. i speak to larry in spokane and keith in nevrland on a regular basis. i've posted here 500 times in 10 threads so folks can see this and figure out what they think. i'm not doing this for me i can ride in the street for all of my commute or buy a new car, i'm doing this for everyone. i'm doing this because i believe i know what's going to happen across the country unless someone does something -now-. i feel strongly about this. i know what i'm doing now may stop a ban in cities around the world through education of the rental folks, owners and more. i know that rental folks might be a little safer now and people might not get hurt, i'm bold enough to say i know for a fact some rental places have already changed. i know i made it safer out there. ...and i'm doing more than i should. i'm just one person, i don't work for segway and i'm gettin' tired. i could use some help-- i cannot keep this up for much longer and that's most likely better for me personally anyway. so back to what am i going to do? i think i did all i could. cheers, pt ====================== segway ht journal: http://www.bookofseg.com other stuff: http://www.flashenabled.com

06-01-2003, 03:41 AM	#15
vpv Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA, . Posts: 106	Bruce, You seemed to have touched on one of the solutions that will accomplish our goal of "Don't ban the Segway"--political power. LLC is doing a great job on this... but owners/renters ought to be more proactive on attaining political power..It's the only way to change some existing weak EPAMD laws out there, like in Calif & other States where it allowed cities the option to ban/restrict.. These state laws are flawed in that regard and it ought to be change.. Maybe a federal law allowing EPAMD on all sidewalks with no options to ban/restrict.. That's a long way to accomplish.. but it will not be accomplished if all we do is send emails here and there. Let's get organized just like the anti-seggers out there are organized. They're more organized than we are. Let's not wait until an issue (ban) comes up and we're so unprepared in fighting it.. One of the suggestions I placed on this forum is to document in writing the initial positive acceptance of people who tried riding Segways (and rentals can now collect these documented reactions from people who try it) and have them acknowledge it in a form of a petition to their city officials... If we continue what we've always done in the past, we'll get what we've always gotten--bans.. It's time to change..

06-01-2003, 03:58 AM	#16
pt Advanced Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: seattle, wa, USA. Posts: 3,000	vpv- i do think this is a better "mode" to be in. you need to understand, i'm doing the best i can to gather all the data i can, ya'll can figure out what to do next too. while i don't think a petition is any good (sorry) i am open to anything that might work. soo.... i did ask -today- "what if i got 1,000 or 1,000,000 signatures that said the ht is safe and the ht is great, would that stop a ban or reverse the park ban in seattle". do you know what the parks department said? no. as in, no. that won't work no. as in, that's a waste of time no. they told me public safety will outweigh public opinion with something like this and while it might be interesting as a data point for someone it won't do anything. basically, the laws would need to be changed and a lobbyist would be needed for real change when a ban happens -or- if you want to change existing laws so bans are harder to pass without merit. so if you want to start on that one, i'd like to hear some ideas too. but hey, don't let all these facts from my city with a park ban (and possible sidewalk ban) influence you-- i'd like to know if your petition thing would work, so can you try it and report back? cali is always on the ban block, anything will help. cheers, pt ====================== segway ht journal: http://www.bookofseg.com other stuff: http://www.flashenabled.com

06-01-2003, 04:34 AM	#17
mzokc Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 1,198	Any crowded location is suspect for an HT ban. However, in our state, no municipality can pass a law preventing the use of the EPAMD. A glider license would work, but that is not currently legal. The answer in Oklahoma to regulate rentals is TAX. They love to TAX whenever possible. They are NOT going to stop something that is providing revenue! Mark

06-01-2003, 04:56 AM	#18
vpv Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA, . Posts: 106	pt.. Like I said before, you're commended for doing a great job. I do think that petition will work if presented to the right people who has the actual authority to make decisions. I don't know if the park department has overall authority on bans or whether the city has final authority over the park department. If the latter is true, then we've asked the wrong guy. However, we all know that public safety is not an issue with the Segway, otherwise we wouldn't buy it...Therefore whoever told you that public safety outweighs public opinion is again misinformed of the capabilities of the Segway and is making decisions out of fear and mistrust--classic profile of a ban. The petition will clear all these fears. I do however am waiting for a more authoritative entity out there that is well trusted among everyone, like the "Highway Institute" (sic) that test crash cars and report objectively on these results or similar entity. I will try my best to see if petitions work and will report back.. but just like you said I'm just one person and could surely use some help.

06-01-2003, 05:04 AM	#19
pt Advanced Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: seattle, wa, USA. Posts: 3,000	the parks department has 100% authority to do what they did. and they did it. the person i talked to confirmed everything i suspected. public safety is an issue with the segway, it's not harmless no matter what any of us think, i'll be the first to go 1,000 miles soon-- trust me i know what the ht is capable of is experienced and non-experienced hands. cities work with lawyers, engineers and figure out what the risk of something is. 10 segways hts in a busy public park bzzzt, not safe. ban. the park dept said a petition is useless a study from the high inst. will take years, what are we to do- now? until you try a petition and it works, i gotta believe my city officials when they tell me that's a waste of time. please report back asap, we need to know what can work. cheers, pt ====================== segway ht journal: http://www.bookofseg.com other stuff: http://www.flashenabled.com

06-01-2003, 05:45 AM	#20
BenjiUK Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Birmingham, West Midlands, United Kingdom. Posts: 111	How excatly could a glider hurt another person, yes I can understand at 12mph an impact could be nasty, but if its black key only what would a 6mph impact do to someone? I'm imagining that once contact was made the seg is pushed backwards and stops while impactee is pushed over or just unblanced? It seems that these bans are through concern over public safety which is what the seg was built around was it not? Any chance of seeing notes on how the parks came to this conclusion, obviously I'm a little concerned that the same thing will happen here. B.

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