i'm going to rent on saturday...

[vpv]

So PT is a complainer ... You complain that 10 HTs doesn't belong in the park, are you goin to complain too if 10 rented HT go into the sidewalk because it might threaten your commute? just as it had threaten your commute in the park? Is there a double standard here?
I don't know if you really advocate the use of segways anywhere pedestrians are allowed as long as it's within the law....

[pt]

vpv-

i'll complain sure, if it is logical and helps more than hurts.

the sidewalk is different than a park.

the law says you cannot ride hts in a park (actually it does now).

cheers,
pt

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

[AtlSeg]

pt--help me out here--I'm confused. You indicated early on that you wouldn't ride in the park, due to the crowded conditions (at least I think that's what you said). You also said

quote:nope again. there -have- been owners that have gone to the park, and the park said "sorry, not here" it did not result in a ban. having a rental place drop 10 people off in a busy park and didn't work with the city to get clearance, that caused the pan.

So, it would seem that Segways weren't allowed before the renters, whether there were signs posted or not??

I've been following your postings on this subject, and you do seem to refine and define your objections as you go along. But what is your MAIN objection here? I'm sincere.... I can see your frustration and (it would appear to me) even anger at this situation. But tell me how this will apply to my world.

BTW, if how many HTs does Seattle currently have for use by public agencies to give it the "title" of having the most in the world?

Dick (Richard) in Atlanta

[emanresu]

The point was made about people having no experience with a Segway, making it different than bike rental. Yes, but you can go out and rent a backhoe or Dozer and nothing is said.

[opti6600]

Yeah, but emanresu...most people don't start running around with a bulldozer in a park! Although...it could have its funny points...

[pt]

quote:Originally posted by AtlSeg pt--help me out here--I'm confused. You indicated early on that you wouldn't ride in the park, due to the crowded conditions (at least I think that's what you said).

that is correct, i am going to the rental place to check them out. i'm not going actually a segway, just go through how they train people. they do not allow people to ride in the park, only the sidewalks and surrounding areas near the park now.

quote:Originally posted by AtlSegSo, it would seem that Segways weren't allowed before the renters, whether there were signs posted or not??

the park department didn't have an issue with 1-2 *owners* going to the park, they were simply warned and asked not to. -now- there is a sign because a rental place was having 10 people glide around. 1 owner needed to be warned is diffferent than a rental shop with 10 rentals that planned to have people there all day / everyday.

quote:Originally posted by AtlSegI've been following your postings on this subject, and you do seem to refine and define your objections as you go along. But what is your MAIN objection here? I'm sincere.... I can see your frustration and (it would appear to me) even anger at this situation. But tell me how this will apply to my world.

main objection: work with the rental place, let them know that i am an owner and concerned. i am going to tell them about the place in vancouver that rents without showing the safety video, etc..

how does this apply to your world? if a rental place opens in your area, you can expect some type of ban -if- they do not do things properly.

quote:Originally posted by AtlSegBTW, if how many HTs does Seattle currently have for use by public agencies to give it the "title" of having the most in the world?

they have 10 segway hts in use and they are doubling the fleet to 20. some other city could be using more, but have not public stated it like seattle has.

cheers,
pt

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

[AtlSeg]

quote:the park department didn't have an issue with 1-2 *owners* going to the park, they were simply warned and asked not to. -now- there is a sign because a rental place was having 10 people glide around. 1 owner needed to be warned is diffferent than a rental shop with 10 rentals that planned to have people there all day / everyday.

It may be semantics, but whether they "warn" 1-2 owners (or "borrowers" or whatever) or "ban" with signs, to me it is still the same--they didn't want any Segways (1 or 2 or 10) in the park, and they still don't now--just have signs saying what they verbalized before.

quote:they have 10 segway hts in use and they are doubling the fleet to 20. some other city could be using more, but have not public stated it like seattle has.

Don't know the numbers in Atlanta, but I'm pretty sure that when you add what the Atlanta Ambassadors have (btw, the Ambassadors are NOT police!) to the Segways used by the police at the airport, I strongly suspect we exceed 10 here. Just a clarification.

Dick (Richard) in Atlanta

[segwayowner]

what did you see pt?

DES: Segway owner

[pt]

quote:Originally posted by AtlSeg It may be semantics, but whether they "warn" 1-2 owners (or "borrowers" or whatever) or "ban" with signs, to me it is still the same--they didn't want any Segways (1 or 2 or 10) in the park, and they still don't now--just have signs saying what they verbalized before.

i spoke with the park today they said they didn't have a problem with a couple owners and warning them, they *did* have a problem with the rental place having 10 segway hts there and they needed to make it clear. when i was there today, the park hired someone to guard the park from hts and was passing out a paper that says the hts are banned from sidewalks now as well, in the parks and bike lanes. the parks department is pushing for a larger ban it seems.

quote:Originally posted by AtlSeg Don't know the numbers in Atlanta, but I'm pretty sure that when you add what the Atlanta Ambassadors have (btw, the Ambassadors are NOT police!) to the Segways used by the police at the airport, I strongly suspect we exceed 10 here. Just a clarification.

okay, seattle has the most segways that have been publicly reported. atlanta might have more, could you find out for sure? thanks.

cheers,
pt

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

[RWC]

quote: But what is your MAIN objection here? I'm sincere.... I can see your frustration and (it would appear to me) even anger at this situation. But tell me how this will apply to my world.

1. Segway riders' freedom to ride on sidewalks and streets is tenuous.
2. Most of us want as much freedeom as we can get.
3. Things that are restricted have various level of [u]enforced</u> restriction.
4. As real or perceived danger or intrusion by Segways go up, so does impetus to restrict Segways, both in word (signs) and action (enforcement).
5. There are people who very much want to restrict Segways. They would like to have evidence to support their case and they will capitalize on it. They most definitely will. That evidence does not have to occur in their own town.
6. There are people whose careers are in part about preventing dangers and intrusions within cities. They respond to real evidence and political pressure. They have the power to restrict and enforce.
7. As the number of Segways in a visible and already crowded area goes up, so does the possibility of increased real or perceived danger and intrusion.
8. Riders with less experience and/or care are more liable to be dangerous or intrusive, real or perceived.
9. Owners usually exhibit more care in using their possession and in preserving their long term freedoms of use. Someone who spent $5k and is aware of pending restrictions on their abiltiy to use their segway will _probably_ be more careful than someone who invested $25, has a low perceived probability of damaging the Segway, and is unaware of pending restrictions (or is aware of them and does not think they will impact them in the future). They will _probably_ be less careful, mindful of their real or perceived impressions they leave in their wake.
10. Owners usually have more expereince and skill than renters.
11. Sudden changes are noticeable. As things are more noticed and under scrutiny, they are more subject to modification and restriction.
12. Rental businesses often create a sudden influx of things they rent.
13. Making profit often leads to taking risks. This isn't necessarily a devious, hurtful thing. You can't make a profit as easily if you make a Segway renter go through all the training we went through, nor practice in a relatively private space prior to going public. You risk not being able to open your business where you want to if you go to the city ahead of time and ask for permission or their input. A business can't make as much money (or maybe any money) if you put real or perceived safety and low intrusion BEFORE making profit. (Due to overhead or less of an appealing fun-factor)
14. A business's decisions can have a much larger public impact than an individual's decisions.
15. A business has every right to try to make profit and not to consider real or perceived danger or intrusion as much as many of us do.
16. We have every right to motivate a business to give more consideration to our needs.
Etc.
Etc.


This will apply to any city or locale, to "my/your world".
It is in MY/YOUR INTEREST, as someone who wants as much freedom with their Segway as possible, to limit the risks that other Segway users will probably take knowingly or otherwise... risks to themselves, others, and hence to our freedom to glide.

Take care, R.

"The best way to control your cow or sheep is to give them a large spacious meadow" - Suzuki Roshi