i'm going to rent on saturday...

[terryp]

I think I read on one of these threads that the renters get black keys until they have a few hours logged, then can graduate to yellow. Is that so? I'd also like to know the minimum age they'll rent to, say if a family with young kids comes in.

I'm guessing that you'll find that the owners are pretty safety conscious. The recent publicity wasn't about anyone not being properly trained or doing something stupid or causing an injury. As I understand it Green Lake was placed off-limits to Segways simply because some trail users complained, for whatever reason.

I'm afraid I won't be surprised to see the Burke-Gilman and other bike trails become off-limits if a couple complaints are filed, even if totally unjustified. I hope I'm wrong. My Segway would become pretty much useless to me if that happened.

I sent an email to the Parks employee who was on the TV segment Tuesday, politely telling her about the legislation allowing EPAMDs on bike trails, describing the positive reactions I've gotten, comparing their safety with bikes and rollerblades - from my perspective anyway, and offering demos to the department, but I haven't gotten a response yet.

I'll be interested in what you learn Saturday PT, particularly as far as the conditions and potential hazards where the renters are allowed to glide.


Practicing Safe Segs in Seattle

[pt]

terry-

as per my conversation the place in seattle is black key only, unless you have logged in lots of hours, i'll find out more later. as far as the age goes, she said 18 and older, not sure what happens if you want to have your kids come along. i'll find out though. here's my guess, they're allowed with a parent, which of could be bad.

green lake was placed off limits because of multiple complaints from people from multiple parks. if fact there were complaints about one rental company before this one that was gliding around parks, but until now a ban didn't happen. the park officials saw that there would be 10 hts in the park and the rest is bans-ville.

i'm sad to say i think you're right, the burke-gilmam will be off limits soon for anyone on a segway...and then it's just a matter of time for sidewalks and then streets.

any given day you can hold a radar gun on the burke and bikes go over 30 mph on the trail a few feet from pedestrians, but it doesn't matter. when i'm on my bike on the trial, i go fast too.

i'll post more info as i get it. i'm going to talk to these folks, show them the "segway monster video" and explain my concerns, hopefully they just keep it in mind, that's really all i can do.

cheers,
pt



======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

[vpv]

PT..
If there were 20 OWNERS of the HT in the park at that time, park officials will still be concerned.. someone will still complain and it will still be "bans-ville". So I think the correlation between renting and the resulting ban doesn't exist. It doesn't connect.

You've probably just over-reacted and concerned now that the ban has crept up into your own backyard.. and IMHO.. you're barking at the wrong tree.. you should put your effort to park officials who may not be aware of the good use of Segway.

[BruceWright]

20 owners at a park at the same time?!!? I've never seen more than 3 owners of Segways at the same time, and that was a scheduled meet.

We're talking 20 Segways at the same time every day of the week. What would the adoption habits of the Segway have to be among the general population before that kind of density occurs? Pretty dang high. At that point SO many people would own a Segway that acceptance isn't an issue anymore.

Let's contrast 1 owner of 20 Segways talking to a city council member with 20 owners of 1 Segway petitioning the same council member. More political clout.

So that's why spooking folks with sudden crowds of rented Segways can trigger a ban before we have the political groundswell to stop it.

-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream

[pt]

vpv-

what do you -really- think the chances of 20 *owners* all going to the park at the same time? the simple fact is, the hts were banned in the park because of a rental. not owners, a rental company.

if you think i'm concerned about this because it's in my backyard, you bet...i'm also *more* concerned about the vancouver operation that rents hts and doesn't have folks watch a safety video -and- only trains them for 15 minutes.

this is a big big issue that could hurt all of us, i don't see anyone else out there doing anything, i'm trying to work with these rental places to stress safety. to let them know how much power they truly have.

the park officials -are- aware of good uses of the segway ht (i've talked with them) i live in a city with *the most* hts used for city work in the world. do you know that putting 10 hts in the park to go around in circles is not a good use of the ht? i do, and so did they.

cheers,
pt



======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

[segwayowner]

i think it is a good idea to visit the rental shop... but i also think that you should have somebody go in undercover and test them. even if the person has riden the seg b4, its easy to buck.

DES: Segway owner

[vpv]

pt.. the ban on the park was not caused by renters, it was caused by complainers..

"what do you -really- think the chances of 20 *owners* all going to the park at the same time?" - This might happen one day if you concentrate on the real problem-the complainers..

"putting 10 hts in the park to go around in circles is not a good use of the ht?" People use it for different reasons.. . your good use of your HT is your only good use. Others use it for other good uses. Putting a judgment on how people use their HT is way off..

"i'm trying to work with these rental places to stress safety." - OK. Your doing a commendable job with this point, but let's assume that they do it 101% correctly as far as safety, yet the park officials still ban it????


pt.. believe me.. I understand your concerns.. If it had happened in my own backyard, I would have approached it differently though rather putting the blame of the ban on renters.
Concentrate on the complainers and educate them..

[pt]

>>pt.. the ban on the park was not caused by renters, it was caused by complainers..

nope, that's not true. i spoke with the park officials.

>>"what do you -really- think the chances of 20 *owners* all going to the park at the same time?" - This might happen one day if you concentrate on the real problem-the complainers..

nope again. there -have- been owners that have gone to the park, and the park said "sorry, not here" it did not result in a ban. having a rental place drop 10 people off in a busy park and didn't work with the city to get clearance, that caused the pan.

>>"putting 10 hts in the park to go around in circles is not a good use of the ht?" People use it for different reasons.. . your good use of your HT is your only good use. Others use it for other good uses. Putting a judgment on how people use their HT is way off..

sorry, i am putting a judgement on how some people wanted to use the segway, making $ off people sending them in a busy park without working with the city. that's good for no one, maybe the renters, but that's not good for all the owners, the people in the park or really anyone.

>>"i'm trying to work with these rental places to stress safety." - OK. Your doing a commendable job with this point, but let's assume that they do it 101% correctly as far as safety, yet the park officials still ban it????

the park is a done deal, the renters didn't work with them. it's banned, that won't change. what -i can- do is make sure the next ban isn't on the sidewalk. 10 rentals in a busy area of my city...not sure that's going to work out.

>>pt.. believe me.. I understand your concerns.. If it had happened in my own backyard, I would have approached it differently though rather putting the blame of the ban on renters.
Concentrate on the complainers and educate them..

i am one of the complainers, at least i agree with what the park officials said, 10 rental hts do not belong in a busy park, sorry.

dude, 10 hts don't belong in a busy park. why would i want to change anyone's mind about that, i agree with it!!

cheers,
pt

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

[dexter]

>>If there were 20 OWNERS of the HT in the park at that time, park officials will still be concerned..

True. But before there would be 20 HT owners in the park, there would be 19 HT owners in the park. And before that 17. And before that 16. And when there are enough HT owners to make 20 of them showing up in the park at the same time a happenstance rather than a coincidence, then there will at that time also likely be 20 HT users on the sidewalk, 20 HT users going to the store or Post Office, 20 HT users commuting to work... And before that 19 HT users commuting to work. And before that 18 HT users commuting to work.

And by then the HT won't be nearly as alien. People and legislators will have a chance to see how safe they are, how dangerous they are, maybe have something more than a quick demo ride, and will be in a better place to make a decision for or against banning.

That's different from SUDDENLY putting 20HT users in the park. Users not as experienced (even IF they are trained properly) as the first wave of "ambassadors" are. Users without a $5000 investment in the care of their individual Segway nor a $5000 investment in the potential of having a future of ban-free riding.

I am NOT against Segway rentals. But in discussing them, there IS a difference between renting and owning, and things will likely be very different when "eventually" there are 20HTs trying to ride in the park. It seems to me that the way LarryL described his business would make renting a positive force for Segway. If he is both sending riders RESPOSIBLY out on rented Segways, plus letting the town and local businesses know what he's doing, he's giving an opportunity to see how safely larger groups of Segways can be in our towns.

Like everything else, it is not renting or renters that is bad or good. It's all in the particulars, and in the attitudes and motivations of the people involved. I think pt just wants a chance to observe and possibly influence this new renting outlet, to make sure if people are doing it, it becomes a positive factor instead of a potential negative. That will result in a better experience all around, for owners, renters, and rental businesses.

Dave C.
me: www.idexter.com
work: www.idealjacobs.com
play: www.nyline.org

[dexter]

Or, maybe he just wants to show them his ROBOT DOG! A ROBOT DOG PHILIP!!!

Dave C.
me: www.idexter.com
work: www.idealjacobs.com
play: www.nyline.org