Segway Tours Gone Bad!

[Florida Ever-Glides]

This was predicted six years ago when Segway tours were just starting.

An evolution in tours is now leaning towards some new Segway Tours opening without insurance, tours allowing 7 year olds, no helmet use, tours opening without legal business status or municipal permits, and on and on...

I am seeing this now occuring in the still 'new' cottage industry. These new rouge businesses will have a dire negative impact on all of us. Look for more regulations as a result that could affect 'everyones' freedom to glide. I have first hand knowledge, it's coming...

What dissappoints me more than anything is the lack of a few Segway dealers (who sell them the Segways) and should consult with these new tour operator wannabe's to point them in a 'right direction' in conducting tours legally, ethically, and in everyone's best interest. Those of you who have no regard to the responsible growth of Segway Guided Tours should be ashamed of yourself. Some people think that it's all about the almighty buck, and nothing else...

I am speaking of a small minority of businesses operating like this, but remember "it only takes one bad apple to spoil the bunch"...

[Mr. Protocol]

Obviously this is aimed at the "rouge (sic) dealers" - the rest of us can make no sense of it whatsoever without specifics. Or else this is just venting to make the poster feel better; same difference for the rest of us.

[KSagal]

If the owners of these businesses are indeed so irresponsible to do the things posted, and are so disinterested in the results it will have on the rest of the cottage industry, how do you think that a dealer would be able to control their activities? For that matter, how do you know that the dealers you are condemning here did not ask if their bonafides were in place, and were told they were?

The very suggestion that the dealer who sells a machine is responsible for the activities of the subsequent owners is a scary proposition... Since we cannot or choose not to hold the rogue tour operator responsible for their errors, we therefore go to the legitimate business owner? Why? I suggest because they are easier to harass.

I prefer to hold the person who does the thing that I do not like responsible, regardless of how effective that is. I choose not to blame the easiest to catch, simply because they are easier to catch and blame.

[bvelke]

If we're in a town where's there a Segway tour operation, we'll usually stop in to introduce ourselves and chat a while, watch their training regimen, and maybe learn a few things from each other about what works and what doesn't.

One of my tour staff was on vacation in a major city and decided to take a Segway tour. She was aghast at what she saw. This operator simply told the customers to step up on I2s and five minutes later they were on the road.

Not surprisingly, a few minutes later a customer ran one wheel off a curb (missing the curb cut) and ended up lying prone in a traffic lane. Thankfully, the traffic was stopped and the customer jumped right up with only a few scratches but the story could have had a tragic ending. Worse, the guide was in the front and didn't even know that the customer had fallen!

After the tour, the operators commented to my employee that they have "some kind of incident" on almost every tour. Since Segways are so easy to ride, they couldn't understand why so many customers have problems. Duh.

I understand that there's going to be an occasional problem even under the best of circumstances. We spend at least a half hour on training and the customer must demonstrate proficiency on a little test course (with traffic cones and a hill) before we'll let them out in public. But on Saturday, we had our second incident of the year. (The first was a woman who fainted from heat stroke in July, despite having two bottles of water that we provided).

More than an hour into a tour in Saturday, a customer got too close and bumped into her husband's machine while stopped at an intersection. She fell and, although she said that she was ok, her head/helmet had hit the ground so my employee followed policy and called 911 to have her checked out. (She was fine).

It is what happened next, however, that really caused my heart to go into my stomach. The responding paramedic commented that it was the sixth Segway tour accident he had responded to in the last few weeks! In this paramedic's mind, Segway tours were developing a reputation for being unsafe and, as Tom said, this is how it affects all of us.

Sadly, while I think INC is in the position to help control this situation, they don't. In fact, I believe that their "Segway Authorized Tour" program makes matters much worse because qualification for the certification is falsely represented to the public. (I know the arguments in favor of the program but they don't justify misleading the public).

Maybe it is time for some sort of association of Segway tour operators that can offer a certification program. Or maybe it can be done under the auspices of DRAFT, SegfesT, or some other existing group or association.

[Bob.Kerns]

I've suggested before a PADI model of certification of Segway users.

This is partly to provide some portability of certification to facilitate rentals -- but the other benefit I see is to set some standards for training -- that is, both certification for the trainer, and the trainee. From the trainee's standpoint, it helps assure that the person doing the training knows what they're doing.

But it also establishes clearly that it IS something that DOES require a bit of training.

I usually tell people that I taught my mother to use a Segway in 10 minutes. Which is true enough, as far as it goes. In 10 minutes, we had moved beyond the "how do I make my Segway go", to "how do I operate safely out in the real world. And that is an ongoing process, but I took pains to cover a wide variety of situations, from curb cuts to traffic to encounters with pedestrians and dogs.

There's a tension, between the need to emphasize how simple and intuitive a Segway is, and the need to emphasize the need to know what to do to be safe.

And a lot of that, as in learning to ride a bike, or drive a car, is how to properly divide your attention between the subtasks, so nothing critical is missed.

Like that your husband has just stopped in front of you. Or how far you need to stay back just in case he DOES stop in front of you.

So I think one of the goals of such a program, would be to engage customers a bit further into safety training. And maybe make it easier to weed out (or at least slow down) the ones who are eager to get out there before they're ready.

[bvelke]

Originally Posted by Bob.Kerns

I've suggested before a PADI model of certification of Segway users.

Yes, but PADI is a complete professional association, not just a certification program. There's a lot of time and investment involved in such an effort but perhaps its time has come.

It would be much simpler, of course, for INC to "certify" individuals who have passed their instructor training, just as car manufacturers do for mechanics. That wouldn't take much more effort on their part and would provide some foundation from which tour operators could promote professionalism and customers could get some level of confidence.

Next best would be for INC to certify the businesses that employ such instructors (or at least be honest about what "Segway Authorized Tour" does and doesn't mean) -- but that won't happen as long as pacifying dealers is their highest priority.

Certifying individual trainers would not only mitigate the erosion of public confidence caused by their "Authorized Tour" designation, it would offer INC a greater shield from liability. Saying that someone has passed an instructor course doesn't make INC liable for the day-to-day operations of the business that employs that instructor.

This is partly to provide some portability of certification to facilitate rentals -- but the other benefit I see is to set some standards for training

I agree that there are a lot of potential benefits to an association of Segway tour operators but I wouldn't have anything to do with it if it facilitated or promoted (unsupervised) rentals. I don't care how much training such a person gets before being let out on their own. I think that is perhaps the biggest single threat to our industry.

Another thing such an association could do is promote a common lexicon. A "tour" is not a "ride" is not a "rental" and I think it is a disservice to the customers and ourselves when operators use those terms (and other cute ones they've invented like "safari") interchangeably, sometimes in a deliberate effort to blur the differences.

Like that your husband has just stopped in front of you. Or how far you need to stay back just in case he DOES stop in front of you.

So I think one of the goals of such a program, would be to engage customers a bit further into safety training. And maybe make it easier to weed out (or at least slow down) the ones who are eager to get out there before they're ready.

For the record, our training repeatedly stresses (before and during the tour) the safe following distance, among many other safety concerns. In fact, in addition to the guide (who focuses on history), every one of our guided tours includes at least one staff "escort" whose job is safety and equipment. Yes, if there is only one customer on a guided tour, our staff outnumbers them! I doubt that many tour operators can say the same.

We've refused to allow some people on tour because of their inability to convince us that they can (or will) operate the Segway safely. We've even turned some tours around when the participants refused to heed our instructions.

So, of course, training and supervision has a huge impact on the prevalence and severity of accidents. But let's be honest -- it will not prevent them. I suspect that any tour operator who says that they've never had a customer fall while on tour is either lying or hasn't been in business for long.

The much bigger impact on the industry is made by tour operators who don't bother with any real training at all. That's the group that a certification program would distinguish.

[Bob.Kerns]

Originally Posted by bvelke

I agree that there are a lot of potential benefits to an association of Segway tour operators but I wouldn't have anything to do with it if it facilitated or promoted (unsupervised) rentals. I don't care how much training such a person gets before being let out on their own. I think that is perhaps the biggest single threat to our industry.

If you take this position, then I think you have to oppose all sales as well as rentals.

I think the issues are the same. I think the training requirements for safety are the same.

I don't think there's any point in renting for casual recreation. But for those such as myself who depend on it for mobility, or who may be regular users for other reasons, I think it's reasonable. Whether it would be profitable is a different question I won't attempt to answer.

[wwhopper]

That have gone above and beyond the number of units to a tour, thus filling the sidewalks with Segways. Thus upsetting those that are pedestrians trying to navigate the sidewalks on foot.

So now if you ride a Segway downtown, you are relegated to the streets, and given a ticket for being on the sidewalk.

So to protest that, the tour operator now operates large group tours in the middle of the busy streets, stopping the tour to show off the sights and blocking the street, thus causing traffic tie-ups.

Makes a nice reflection upon those of us who use our Segways around town for general transportation.

A good tour operator will be respectful of others, a bad tour operator is only interested in bringing in the bucks.

[bvelke]

Originally Posted by Bob.Kerns

If you take this position, then I think you have to oppose all sales as well as rentals.

But I don't. A person who buys a Segway has a big investment in behaving well, i.e., skin in the game. The rental customer does not.

When a local person buys a Segway, I strongly encourage them to take a free tour with me as soon as possible. I want a chance to teach them the local regulations and customs, introduce them to local police and rangers, etc., and to impress on them that their behavior reflects on me. They are just as eager to learn how to stay out of trouble. We both make valuable friends in the process: I offer them a tour discount for guests who come to town and I've been known to borrow their machines when I'm in a pinch.

I get phone calls almost every day from people who say that they want to rent Segways. When I explain that we only offer tours and escorted rides, most say that would be fine. That is, they didn't understand the distinction and are even happier to have a guided tour (if they want the history) or an escorted ride on a proscribed route (if they just want the experience of riding a Segway).

Those that just want to "joy ride" in a tourist town are up to no good and I am thrilled to turn them away. Good riddance!

When a Segway owner comes to town, I offer them a tour at half price when they use their own machine. I'll even give them a small discount if they didn't bring their ride. But I won't rent them a pistol with which to shoot me. It isn't just a matter of riding experience. It is a matter of understanding and respecting the local regulations. It doesn't even take an accident - just annoying a merchant or scaring a single pedestrian can start a wave of discontent which could end with regulations or restrictions on me. We have carefully cultivated the trust and good will of the citizenry (not an easy task) and I won't do anything to jeopardize that.

I know of at least half a dozen Segway rental businesses that not only went out of business but managed to poison the atmosphere and ruin the prospects of any future tour business in that area. You probably know of some as well.

[Bob.Kerns]

Originally Posted by bvelke

But I don't. A person who buys a Segway has a big investment in behaving well, i.e., skin in the game. The rental customer does not.

When a local person buys a Segway, I strongly encourage them to take a free tour with me as soon as possible. I want a chance to teach them the local regulations and customs, introduce them to local police and rangers, etc., and to impress on them that their behavior reflects on me. They are just as eager to learn how to stay out of trouble. We both make valuable friends in the process: I offer them a tour discount for guests who come to town and I've been known to borrow their machines when I'm in a pinch.

I get phone calls almost every day from people who say that they want to rent Segways. When I explain that we only offer tours and escorted rides, most say that would be fine. That is, they didn't understand the distinction and are even happier to have a guided tour (if they want the history) or an escorted ride on a proscribed route (if they just want the experience of riding a Segway).

Those that just want to "joy ride" in a tourist town are up to no good and I am thrilled to turn them away. Good riddance!

When a Segway owner comes to town, I offer them a tour at half price when they use their own machine. I'll even give them a small discount if they didn't bring their ride. But I won't rent them a pistol with which to shoot me. It isn't just a matter of riding experience. It is a matter of understanding and respecting the local regulations. It doesn't even take an accident - just annoying a merchant or scaring a single pedestrian can start a wave of discontent which could end with regulations or restrictions on me. We have carefully cultivated the trust and good will of the citizenry (not an easy task) and I won't do anything to jeopardize that.

I know of at least half a dozen Segway rental businesses that not only went out of business but managed to poison the atmosphere and ruin the prospects of any future tour business in that area. You probably know of some as well.

OK, then limit the discussion if you will to people who DO own Segways, have skin in the game, but wish to rent because they cannot bring their own.

BTW, if I rent, I am very much going to want the local info. Whether that's best obtained by a full tour or a focused "local conditions" lesson, would be open to suggestion -- it would depend I think on how well tours match general conditions.

Either way, that has a lot more value to me than a bare rental. And after that period of observation, it will be easier to say "no" than to a sales prospect -- you won't have as skin in the game. That sale is bigger dollars, and a longer-term exposure to any risk of disrupting the local climate.

That said, I think rental would be more something that would make sense for someone who is primarily a dealer than a tour operator.

Anyway, let me just observe that while bad tour operators may cause huge problems -- I think all the good ones out there deserve a lot of credit for the much broader support of Segways I've been seeing, just in the time I've been using them. More and more people I meet are enthusing about what a great experience they've had on a tour they've taken somewhere -- or they've seen people on tours, and thought it looked like fun.

I have not once had someone tell me they've had a problem with people hey encountered on Segway tours. (I'm sure that's different in the vicinity of a bad one!)

I've encountered one person who'd been injured on one, but in that time, I've encountered more tales of, say, soccer injuries, which appear to me to occur at a higher rate.