12-31-2005, 05:43 PM | #21 |
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Dubai, United Arab Emirates.
Posts: 2,533
|
Pam - I'd suggest you move this to the OT area. Josh obviously can't take a hint.
Josh - Your facts are as skewed as your viewpoint. I am both a retired decorated Navy veteran and a business owner. I am also a well traveled American who has spent the better part of 30 years working to promote our country, our products, and our benefits (which include democracy, btw). Now let me touch on your "facts"... 1. “Pre-emptive war based on lies.” (No WMDs) WMDs were found. Do you, as others, conveniently forget the long range missiles that were found. Those missiles were in DIRECT VIOLATION of the UN agreements as signed by Saddam Hussein and which gave the right to any member of the UN Security Council to enforce them. 2. “No Bin Laden capture.” Nobody has ever said that the war in Iraq had anything to do with the capture of Osama Bin Laden. And while I always chuckled at the thought of capturing Osama in days, I still believe we need to continue down this path. 3. “Torture and rape in Iraq by US (authorized by these neo-cons).” Hmmm, never knew that rape was ever authorized by anybody. Yes, we have, in the broad sense of the word, tortured folks and yes, it was (and still is) deplorable. 4. “Rendition.” Do you actually oppose the renditions or do you just use the word as a filler to make you list look longer. Renditions are nothing new and the only issue being opposed by most governments is the use of their country's airspace. 5. “Outing a CIA agent for political revenge.” Do you have proof that it was for revenge or are you just repeating the same "facts" (please note the quotation marks) that others have tried to prove? 6. “Mishandling of Katrina and watching our fellow Americans starve and die for no reason.” Please. Before you start spouting this drivel understand the actual chain of command. Prior to the Federal Government being able to provide help at the state or city level they must be asked in. Therefore, prior to the US Military or any other form of Federal Government support BOTH Mayor Nagin AND Gov. Blanco had to officially request this aid. Once this was done (four days into the disaster) the aid was provided. Does this absolve FEMA of some of their miscues? No, but before you start casting aspersions know your facts. 7. “Gas prices soaring.” Yep, gas prices are soaring but since the price of oil is dictated by OPEC, which last time I looked was NOT controlled by the Federal Government, and by the profit making oil companies, I don't see why you are throwing this into the mix. Unless of course, you are just trying to blur the reality! 8. “Spying on Americans and UN members without warrants.” A) What UN members is the Fed. Govt. spying on? B) Spying in what sense? And on whom? And how? 9. “Bushie falling off his Segway hurt Segway.” Again, falling off a Segway has no bearing on anbody's ability to lead. 10. “And don't get me started on Cheney. Mr. pro-apartheid, anti-Martin Luther King Day, cutting school lunch programs for poor kids, anti-environment and on and on.” Can you substantiate your pro-apartheid statemetn? Or you anti-MLK statement? of any of your other statements? Or, as seems to be your pattern, are you repeating drivel that is often tossed out to blur reality? 11. “You are either with us or against us.” I'm not with you (Josh) nor with GWB. Nor am I against either of you. I'm my own person, doing what I believe is right for myself, my family, my city, my country, and those around me. 12. “Did Iraq perpetrate 9/11? Don’t think so.” Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, every said Iraq perpertrated 9/11. In fact, in two posts above you blamed it on the Saudis, as have many others. However, Saddam Hussein was known to support terrorism and did invade a friendly country. As the saying goes, an enemy of my friend is my enemy! I'm am one of the most open minded individuals you will ever meet....and I know that everybody has the right to their own opinion and respect that. However, having been a regular on-air and in-the-press contributor (both locally and in the US), I am also very well versed in fact checking. You will believe what you want to believe as will I. In the end all that matters is that when we agree to disagree (and that, by now, should be obvious), we at least respect the other's opinion. If you want to get the last word (and I'm sure you will), go ahead, I will not respond any more. However, rest assured that while I may disagree with you I do respect what you have to say...but only wish you would do a tad bit more research (and Fox News is NOT research) before you quote "facts". Happy New Year to all.....43 minutes into the new year. Steven --- EAMUS CATULI! --- No person is truly useless. They may always serve as a bad example! |
12-31-2005, 06:31 PM | #22 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: East Rutherford, New Jersey, USA.
Posts: 690
|
WOW did this thread go off the topic First Off I agreed with Steven..MOVE THIS TO OFF TOPIC..And how and why did SEGCHAT get to be a Policical Sounding board There are many other forums for this
-- live with love and care, upon the level and by the square |
12-31-2005, 06:38 PM | #23 | |
Glides a lot, talks more...
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Pelham, NH, USA.
Posts: 10,356
|
Josh, I don't know you. I simply tried to make nice. Where do you get off on attacking me? I simply said that I thought you had the right to sound off, and in part that is what I served my country to guarentee.
I now see that I was wrong. I gave an inch, and you attacked me on several levels... I had presumed, that the experience that you offered as proof that you knew what you were saying was what you felt. I was my mistake. Do not worry, I will not rise to defend you again. An since we do not know eachother, I will give you this piece of unsolicited advice. Do not search me out. Quote:
Each road you travel should be just a bit better for having had you pass. |
|
12-31-2005, 07:14 PM | #24 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SoCal
Posts: 261
|
Steven,
Let me start for thanking you for you service to out great country. Seriously. It is good people like you who have insured our freedom to heatedly debate important issues openly without people questioning our patriotism. However, it is interesting how differently our “fact checking sources” have interpreted the “facts” so differently. I could find “sources” that will tell us the earth is flat, we never went to the moon, Bush Sr. was involved in JFKs assassination, Prescott’s Bush’s huge support for the Nazis in WWII and that the holocaust never happened. Big deal. The truth is written by the conquerors not the conquered. Do you really feel good in your heart/gut about this war and this administration? Ok, here we go again… 1. “Pre-emptive war based on lies.” (No WMDs) This stands. Look it up all you want. Read the Downing Street Memos. Long range missiles? Give me a break. Who are we to tell anyone what weapons they can have? We are the only country who actually nuked cities filled with civilians in Japan. We and our allies don’t always adhere to every UN resolution/treaty do we? Who is going to keep us in check? The UN? Right. Would be even consider disarming (or not attacking) because the UN says so? 2. “Nobody has ever said that the war in Iraq had anything to do with the capture of Osama Bin Laden.” Really? This shows how far you will go to defend the un-defendable. This was said, implied and inferred MANY times in our “march to war” and beyond by Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, etc. Look it up. Bait and switch, disgusting and many fell for it. The Bush clan knew they could never sell the American public on attacking Iraq without trying to make a connection. How many books written by x-Bush cronies need to be written for you to see this? 3. “Hmmm, never knew that rape was ever authorized by anybody. Yes, we have, in the broad sense of the word, tortured folks and yes, it was (and still is) deplorable. “ Again, look it up. There are pictures and video of us raping men & women (and reportedly children as their parents heard them screaming) in that famous Iraqi prison. When these images come out to the public, hopefully those responsible will be held to justice. Nothing has changed in that prison, sad but true. And our brave service men and women thought they were doing the right thing by following orders (from contractors!) that I’m sure they knew in their hearts were immoral. What would you have done? Seriously. 4. “Rendition.” We should have the balls to do our own dirty work here not “out-source it” to others the way we did in Afghanistan in the mountains of Tora Bora when “looking” for Bin Laden and he “got away”. Yes, we did let him get away. Look it up. There are many good reasons for this as you know. Gotta have that boogie-man to scare us, right? 5. “Do you have proof that it was for revenge or are you just repeating the same "facts" (please note the quotation marks) that others have tried to prove?” Let’s just wait and see. There is much circumstantial evidence to prove this. Enough to convict IMO. Enough to warrant a full investigation. 6. “Please. Before you start spouting this drivel…” This is so sad. If you believe that Bush did all he could for the suffering people in LA (and Miss.), then he should be impeached for incompetence. What would Clinton have done? Or Giuliani for that matter? If you can defend Bush’s actions here, your true colors are showing. Live and let die, right? What about Barbara’s disgusting comments afterward? Family values? NOT! Giuliani would have been there in person, up to his balls in mud, leading the way and I’m not his biggest fan. Even Bush had to admit his mistakes on this one on TV. Did you see that? Pathetic. “Heck of a job Brownie!” How did that clown get to be head of FEMA? What ever happened to, “The buck stops here”? Even Bush had to take responsibility, can’t you see that? 7. “Yep, gas prices are soaring but since the price of oil is dictated by OPEC…” Yeah, Bush/Cheney and their “secret energy meetings” had nothing to do with our current oil prices? Why were the meetings secret? This admin is so transparent with it’s evil it amazing. Haven’t you seen Bush holding hands with his beloved Saudi prince on tape? Where is their appreciation for us defending them and Kuwait? No flowers, no candy, no oil? Gas is about 10 cents a gallon over there. What a sad joke. 8. “Spying on Americans and UN members without warrants.” The story broke days ago that Bush was bugging UN offices and thousands of Americans’ phone calls after 9/11 in many papers. Not to mention arrests and detentions of Americans for long periods of time with no access to lawyers, etc. Bill Of Rights anyone? 9. “Again, falling off a Segway has no bearing on anybody’s ability to lead.” Maybe not but it DID hurt Segway! 10. “Can you substantiate your pro-apartheid statement? Or your anti-MLK statement? of any of your other statements?” Look up Cheney’s voting record in Congress. It is hateful, disgusting, backward thinking and right there in print for all to see. 11. “I'm not with you (Josh) nor with GWB. Nor am I against either of you. I'm my own person, doing what I believe is right for myself, my family, my city, my country, and those around me.” Same here brother. 12. “Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, every said Iraq perpetrated 9/11. In fact, in two posts above you blamed it on the Saudis, as have many others. However, Saddam Hussein was known to support terrorism and did invade a friendly country. As the saying goes, an enemy of my friend is my enemy!” Really? This again shows how far you will go to defend the un-defendable. Are you telling me that the hi-jackers were not Saudi’s? Again, it was said, implied and inferred MANY times on our “march to war” that there was a “connection” between Iraq and 9/11 by Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, etc. Look it up. They had to retract much of this because it is so absurd yet they still flirt with that crap to this day to keep us confused I suppose. Iraq invaded a friendly country? Kuwait? Why would we defend a twisted little monarchy that oppresses women and sells oil to the highest bidder? How many American lives is that worth? This wasn’t about oil, please. With friends like Kuwait who need enemies? Have we pressed Kuwait to have elections? Selective morality. You can have Kuwait. 13. “I'm am one of the most open minded individuals you will ever meet... If you have to say that, it makes me wonder. Some of my best friends are… “And I know that everybody has the right to their own opinion and respect that. “ Mighty white of ya’! “However, having been a regular on-air and in-the-press contributor (both locally and in the US), I am also very well versed in fact checking.” Great, check YOUR facts, fact checker. What would it take to get you to admit that this guy is stupid and dangerous for America (and the world) and needs to go? Yes, we disagree on the “facts”. Sounds like the Bush defenders are using the old, “It depends what the definition if is is”. Sounds familiar. And it was lame then too. "Those Who Would Sacrifice Liberty for Security Deserve Neither." -Franklin Patriot Act my arse! HAPPY NEW YEAR STEVEN! Peace to you and yours in '06 and beyond. Let's continue this over a glide and some coffee sometime. You are obviously a very intelligent and interesting fellow. P.S. I’m not interested in getting the last word. Not very democratic. It’s the debate and getting people to think before they vote I am interested in. If the votes are being counted that is. The notion of us having any credibility in showing other countries how to have honest elections after 2000 is the biggest joke in all this mess. Excpet maybe the notion of sending Segway's into war. "Wherever you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Banzai |
12-31-2005, 07:44 PM | #25 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SoCal
Posts: 261
|
“Pam - I'd suggest you move this to the OT area. Josh obviously can't take a hint.”
How Bushlike, trying to dictate who, when and where people should express themselves. What is wrong about one thread out of hundreds here being political? Amazing. Who do you think you are? Don’t you know who I think I am? Lol. Now you are threatening me? You won’t see me crying to Pam like you did. Careful, your true colors are showing again tough guy. I’m not afraid of bullies like you and GWB, unlike some of us. If I was base and classless like our VP, I’d quote him and say to you, “Go f**k yourself”. But I believe in open, honest debate, even if it gets personal sometimes. Attack me all you want, my non-battle tested skin is pretty thick. Get over it. We are all Americans first, right? You attacked me about a post that had nothing to do with you. Maybe you’ve spent too much time in the Arab Emirates? Come home soldier. We need your passion here. P.S. Your last pass on my last post is so shameless. Why are you defending this nut? We are just going in circles. Let’s move onward and upward. We’ll see what happens. FYI, I listen/read all over the political spectrum. (Wall Street Journal, The Nation, Rush, Hannity, Air America, etc. etc.) Keep questioning my patriotism. You are so transparent. Like listening to Hannity. Have some more kool-aid on me. “Attacks” are one thing but ”threats” are something else. Bullies always turn out to be wimps. Get over yourself. FYI, according to all polls, the MAJORITY of Americans DO NOT support this reckless, radical, cabal running our government and this clown who was appointed president after losing the popular vote to begin with. "Wherever you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Banzai |
12-31-2005, 07:54 PM | #26 |
Last of the Early 30
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Yelm, WA
Posts: 4,679
|
Gosh, guys, I go to a movie and we've got WWIII here. This is getting too heated, methinks. If we could just discuss it, off-topic would be fine. But it seems to be getting personal, so I'm locking the thread.
Pam |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
|
|