What's with the big T and that cup?

[pam]

Or maybe, Hellphish/Gihgehls, you might just ignore the thread and read other threads. If you don't like the community here, or the way we communicate, there are other forums you could be a part of, instead.
Pam

[Sal]

... I'm moving this thread to Off-Topic since it has strayed in the direction of language.

-Sal

[Bob.Kerns]

Originally Posted by KSagal

2. I was under the impression that the correct term was "Hear, here", meaning that a person should listen to what is said here... I am unfamiliar with any other meaning for that phrase...

That is indeed the correct meaning associated with "Hear, Hear!" Or the correct spelling for that meaning.

"Here, here!" however, well, think of calling a dog to heel. It's used when calling someone to account, or reigning in a discussion. "Here, here! This is SegwayChat, not LanguageChat!" Or "Here, here, what's all the fuss? Segways on sidewalks? Yes, that's legal now. Please stop yelling and go about your business."

As you can see, they're in no way interchangeable!

[glen_d]

Originally Posted by eJM

Proactive = real word
Irregardless = real dumb

Proactive: A psychological term since the 1930's, but also a hellish contrivance used by business managers since the 1970's to indicate the opposite of reactive. Oh wait, we already have a word for that, it's "active."

Irregardless: Yes, real dumb.

This message: Off-topic.

Glen

[KSagal]

Originally Posted by Bob.Kerns

That is indeed the correct meaning associated with "Hear, Hear!" Or the correct spelling for that meaning.

"Here, here!" however, well, think of calling a dog to heel. It's used when calling someone to account, or reigning in a discussion. "Here, here! This is SegwayChat, not LanguageChat!" Or "Here, here, what's all the fuss? Segways on sidewalks? Yes, that's legal now. Please stop yelling and go about your business."

As you can see, they're in no way interchangeable!

I do not see what you say is different at all.

In the example of "Hear, here, what is all the fuss?" You are using the command "Hear, here"... as an introduction to the "what is all the fuss?" It is simply adding emphasis. Telling people to listen to the rest of the sentence. This is needed in a loud or boisterous environment... Hardly a different meaning at all...

As far as a double command to your dog? I don't get it. Most likely neither will the dog, it will only confuse him. Better to say a particular command, let him react, and then repeat it if needed...

I am not familiar with the rules for improper speech. I am by no means an authority on how others should speak either...

I appreciate your position, but believe my statement stands. My understanding of that expression, which is not proper speech anyway, and is therefore subject to local variances and customs, is that the term is "Hear Here" and is an opener to a statement that the utterer feels needs emphasis.

(I have also heard it used as a supportive utterance, in that at a loud and uncontrolled public meeting, a person may make a statement, and another may declare loudly, "Hear, here!" in support.)

Anyway you cut it, it is an interesting case, and I encourage you to continue to teach us what you know, and I will do the same. Do not take offense if I do not agree with you.

[eJM]

The correct usage is "hear, hear." It is a sign of approval or a call to listen up, as in "hear ye, hear ye." Can it be "hear here"? Yes, if that is what you mean. Can it be "here here"? Yes, if you don't know what you meant to say. Can it be "here, here!"? Yes, if you are emphasizing a command to come to you (as in your dog or indentured servant). But under normal circumstances and through a long history, the phrase is "hear, hear."

References:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hear,+hear
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/178100.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hear_hear
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mhear.html

[Bob.Kerns]

So you two completely reject "here, here"?

I can sympathize with that position, as "hear, hear" is certainly the traditional, better documented usage.

However, as language is as it is spoken (or written), I'm not one to rule out the "here, here" usage -- but my point is that it does NOT substitute (as I have seen all too often) for expression approval. A position I believe you both agree with.

I don't believe the usages I attribute to "here, here" relate in the slightest to "hear ye, hear ye" -- nor do I think I have ever seen or heard "hear, hear" applied in ADVANCE of the utterance to which it is calling attention to.

But it sounds like we could have some good language debates. One of my hot buttons is self-appointed language cops who try to humiliate people over some supposed language mistake, because they have misparsed the statement they're complaining about, or are ignorant of some aspect of the history of the language. But other than taking such thugs down a notch or two, it's all in good fun and education.

Anyway, I cannot see any reason to regard "here, here" as incorrect in cases that do not derive from "hear ye, hear ye".

[eJM]

Originally Posted by Bob.Kerns

So you two completely reject "here, here"?

I speak only for myself and I am pretty sure I didn't reject "here, here." Maybe a second reading of my post will clarify that for you.

I can sympathize with that position, as "hear, hear" is certainly the traditional, better documented usage.

Only (seriously) documented, as far as I could tell.

Jim

[Bob.Kerns]

Guilty as charged -- when I checked back on "both" of you, I just read your first sentence, where you said "only correct". Sorry.

I'm not sure what you regard as "seriously" documented. To document a usage, you look for usages, and I'm not in favor of considering some "serious" and some 'frivolous", except for usages which are clearly frivolous (e.g. language spoofs).

I would estimate that about 2/3 of the usages of "here, here" I've seen have been erroneous. I find it very jarring. But I've seen quite a few people use "hear, hear" in ways that are clearly inappropriate as well:

"Hear, hear! You're totally wrong and your wheels are on sideways, and nobody should listen to a word you say!"

Obviously, I made that up, but just as obviously, the intent would not be to call for people to listen to what the original writer had to say! Of course, you could argue they really did mean "hear, hear", but are using it completely wrong.

Anyway, I can't think of anything more to say on the topic that anybody would find remotely entertaining, so I should probably shut up now.