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[KSagal]

Weren't 3 wheel ATVs pulled from the market because they were deemed unsafe?

[JohnM]

Originally Posted by KSagal

Weren't 3 wheel ATVs pulled from the market because they were deemed unsafe?

Yes, in the five years leading up to the outlawing of 3 wheelers in 1988 about 900 people (including many kids) were killed. The big problem was that 3 wheel ATVs, some capable of 50mph, tended to flip backwards due to poor weight distribution, a situation not likely on the new stand-up electric trikes. They'll just flip riders to the side.

The ATV manufacturers agreed to the ban but fought a total recall, insisting that the trikes were safe if ridden properly. You know, the "bad things happen to dumb people" philosophy.

[Bill Seright]

Originally Posted by JohnM

The ATV manufacturers agreed to the ban but fought a total recall, insisting that the trikes were safe if ridden properly. You know, the "bad things happen to dumb people" philosophy.

That reminds me of the advertising campaign for Lyrica which is a medication my spouse takes for nueropathy.

"Lyrica is non-habit forming when used as directed."

Isn't one of the definitions of medication addiction taking a medication outside of the directed dosage? So wouldn't any medication be non-habit forming when used as directed?

Bill Seright

[Bob.Kerns]

Originally Posted by Bill Seright

That reminds me of the advertising campaign for Lyrica which is a medication my spouse takes for nueropathy.

"Lyrica is non-habit forming when used as directed."

Isn't one of the definitions of medication addiction taking a medication outside of the directed dosage? So wouldn't any medication be non-habit forming when used as directed?

Bill Seright

No. It all hinges on the difference between the words "addiction" and "habituation".

Lots of medications have to be carefully tapered off after being used as directed. For example, SSRI antidepressants. Corticosteroids, which depress your adrenal output of cortisol. Narcotics -- the stronger narcotics cannot even be used until you're habituated, or they'll kill you due to suppressing your respiration.

Addiction to pain killers is not that common when used to treat pain, though it happens. But we have the ridiculous situation where people can't get pain killers because doctors are afraid the narcs will come after their licenses if they treat the patient's pain as aggressively as the patient deserves. You get things like patients with broken hips (e.g. me) being transported via ambulance over bumpy roads after being abruptly taken off a morphine drip, and dumped directly down to Darvon thereafter. I think that was the worst pain in the whole ordeal.

Ironically, I may have contributed to their idea it was OK to do this, by carefully minimizing my morphine consumption to stay moderately alert.

[Five-Flags]

Originally Posted by Bob.Kerns

...
Ironically, I may have contributed to their idea it was OK to do this, by carefully minimizing my morphine consumption to stay moderately alert.

Besides, you also deprived your family/friends/visitors of the opportunity to have the SAME conversation every thirty seconds or so. I know -- my wife has had both knees replaced (a year apart). That 30-second memory loop sure deals with the pain, but coherence suffers a bit!

[KSagal]

Originally Posted by Bob.Kerns

No. It all hinges on the difference between the words "addiction" and "habituation".

Lots of medications have to be carefully tapered off after being used as directed. For example, SSRI antidepressants. Corticosteroids, which depress your adrenal output of cortisol. Narcotics -- the stronger narcotics cannot even be used until you're habituated, or they'll kill you due to suppressing your respiration.

Addiction to pain killers is not that common when used to treat pain, though it happens. But we have the ridiculous situation where people can't get pain killers because doctors are afraid the narcs will come after their licenses if they treat the patient's pain as aggressively as the patient deserves. You get things like patients with broken hips (e.g. me) being transported via ambulance over bumpy roads after being abruptly taken off a morphine drip, and dumped directly down to Darvon thereafter. I think that was the worst pain in the whole ordeal.

Ironically, I may have contributed to their idea it was OK to do this, by carefully minimizing my morphine consumption to stay moderately alert.

A number of years ago (11 I think) I wound up on a Morphine drip for a several days because I shattered a small bone or two, and I guess it hurt...

I seem to recall they put me on Demorall afterward, in preparation for the road trip several days down the road... I was on the demorall for several days.

After the dem iv, I was put right into the vehicle...

After that, the take home pills were percosetts... I use the big ones now, 7.5 grains instead of the typical nausea inducing 5 grain tablets...

Tylenol 3s were in the mix, but I don't think tylenol with codine is quite up to the task that these other we doing...

So how do my pharmaceuticals stack up? I am not much of a pharma student...



Oh, yeah. These small bones are sometimes called Vertebrae.

[Bob.Kerns]

Originally Posted by KSagal

A number of years ago (11 I think) I wound up on a Morphine drip for a several days because I shattered a small bone or two, and I guess it hurt...

I seem to recall they put me on Demorall afterward, in preparation for the road trip several days down the road... I was on the demorall for several days.

After the dem iv, I was put right into the vehicle...

After that, the take home pills were percosetts... I use the big ones now, 7.5 grains instead of the typical nausea inducing 5 grain tablets...

Tylenol 3s were in the mix, but I don't think tylenol with codine is quite up to the task that these other we doing...

So how do my pharmaceuticals stack up? I am not much of a pharma student...



Oh, yeah. These small bones are sometimes called Vertebrae.

I am firmly of the opinion that Tylenol 3 should be outlawed.

The Tylenol content simply ensures that if someone attempts to abuse it, they'll suffer liver damage.

It's enough of a drain on the system when someone abuses narcotics. We don't need narcotic addicts with damaged livers! Livers are expensive to replace and in short supply.

Combining those medications in one pill is immoral, unethical, and downright criminal, in my view.

Do I parse it correctly that you're still using narcotics as a result? My sympathies...

Maybe someday we'll have something better.

[KSagal]

Originally Posted by Bob.Kerns

I am firmly of the opinion that Tylenol 3 should be outlawed.

The Tylenol content simply ensures that if someone attempts to abuse it, they'll suffer liver damage.

It's enough of a drain on the system when someone abuses narcotics. We don't need narcotic addicts with damaged livers! Livers are expensive to replace and in short supply.

Combining those medications in one pill is immoral, unethical, and downright criminal, in my view.

Do I parse it correctly that you're still using narcotics as a result? My sympathies...

Maybe someday we'll have something better.

No, no no... I did not mean to mislead...

I happen to be pretty anti pharma, and while I do take a few low dose maintenance medications (Blood pressure, antacid, cholesterol, and a baby asprin) I do not take narcotics...

I have a good relationship with my doctor, and he will fill my requests for narcotics as I ask, but my last script for the big perks was only 10 pills, and they lasted a year and a half...

I am in constant pain, or at least discomfort, thanks to a less than perfect knee as a result of playing in the Army too hard... My bad back is more age and middle spread related than the broken parts...

The reason I need such a large dose, even though infrequently, is that the damage I do have in a couple spots is very deep tissue or structural, and if I cannot get ahead of it mentally (which is how I usually do it) I have found that I am pretty resistant to the effect of these lighter duty pain killers...

If it hurts bad enough that I need to relax it with medicine (or more accurately, I need to step away from the pain long enough to relax) I need it pretty bad...

Like your story, much of this is my own fault, in that I have learned to live with a very high level of discomfort.

[Gihgehls]

Originally Posted by KSagal

No, no no... I did not mean to mislead...

I happen to be pretty anti pharma, and while I do take a few low dose maintenance medications (Blood pressure, antacid, cholesterol, and a baby asprin) I do not take narcotics...

I have a good relationship with my doctor, and he will fill my requests for narcotics as I ask, but my last script for the big perks was only 10 pills, and they lasted a year and a half...

I am in constant pain, or at least discomfort, thanks to a less than perfect knee as a result of playing in the Army too hard... My bad back is more age and middle spread related than the broken parts...

The reason I need such a large dose, even though infrequently, is that the damage I do have in a couple spots is very deep tissue or structural, and if I cannot get ahead of it mentally (which is how I usually do it) I have found that I am pretty resistant to the effect of these lighter duty pain killers...

If it hurts bad enough that I need to relax it with medicine (or more accurately, I need to step away from the pain long enough to relax) I need it pretty bad...

Like your story, much of this is my own fault, in that I have learned to live with a very high level of discomfort.

I really like this post

[Bob.Kerns]

Originally Posted by KSagal

The reason I need such a large dose, even though infrequently, is that the damage I do have in a couple spots is very deep tissue or structural, and if I cannot get ahead of it mentally (which is how I usually do it) I have found that I am pretty resistant to the effect of these lighter duty pain killers...

If it hurts bad enough that I need to relax it with medicine (or more accurately, I need to step away from the pain long enough to relax) I need it pretty bad...

Like your story, much of this is my own fault, in that I have learned to live with a very high level of discomfort.

This is pretty much normal. Once you let pain get ahead of you, it takes more pain meds to get ahead of it again, than it would have taken if you'd been on them all along.

I've traded most of my neurological pain for numbness. I'm not so sure that's a good trade -- but at least I don't suddenly cry out in agony when the invisible elves with ice picks stab me through the foot. It tends to get you funny looks from passers-by.

It's weird -- the pain is meaningless, gentle touch can be excruciatingly painful, and meaningful injury is painless.